ChippyChippy

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        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        John, I was looking for this earlier, but couldn't find it.
        Anyway, to further emphasize the position of the ICBP and it's associates, this is a copy of part of a letter sent in Sept 2013 from Sheila Telford, Chairman of ICBP, to Steve Webb.
        This is the relevant paragraph........
        "We recognise that the UK has recently been in a time of severe austerity. With the British economy now saved, as George Osborne is reported this week to have claimed, we would be happy with a commitment to unfreeze current pensions at an identified point: we would be delighted to negotiate a staggered introduction of payments. We also have no interest, and will never have an interest, in pursuing backdating of pension payments, only current pensions forward."
        The full letter can be found from this link.......
        http://pensionjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Letter-to-Steve-Webb-13-Sept.pdf

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        John. In the Committee stage of Clause 20 of the new Pension Bill Steve Webb said this.....
        "I have lost count, but I think this is the fourth review that we have been asked for so far. I am not convinced that this one would add any more than the first three. Our position is clear, and at this point clarity is what people need. I recognise the concerns of the affected groups, but at a cost of over £700 million, with a possible knock-on into Billions if backdating was pursued, This is not a priority for the Government. On that basis, it would be wrong to have a review to raise expectations, and it is right that clause 20 should stand part of the Bill."

        And in the same debate.......

        "There is a danger that, as soon as we say that we should pay uprating going forward, someone would say, “Hang on a minute, I retired 20 years ago. Not only should you pay me the pension that I would now be getting if it had always been uprated, but I want all the money for the period since I left the country for all those years in the interim period when it was not uprated. If it’s right to uprate it now, why didn’t you uprate it last year, the year before and the year before that? We are talking about billions of pounds here. There is a real risk to the Exchequer with such a proposal."

        This is why the ICBP are taking the route they are, and NOT, and have certainly no intention of EVER asking for backdating to be paid by the British government.
        Quite obviously Webb and Co would use any request like this as a huge and powerful reason for denying ever ANY uprating we are all fighting for.

        Webb and Co have very, very little on which to base the existence of the frozen pension policy. We need to give them less reasons to hang on to it, not more.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Thank you John, I know everyone who is campaigning for this discrimination to end will appreciate that.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        John I should have mentioned that we would all be delighted to read any replies from anyone you've been in touch with. If you are willing to share them with us then please post them here......

        https://www.facebook.com/pensionjustice

        Where you'll get many more responses than what's NOT happening here!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Thanks for the update john. You're not far off the mark about this site dying, it's a ruddy shame seeing as it began and continued with so much promise.
        It's demise can be placed in one slot though, and that slot is called 38 Degrees. Having held the number one position (in terms of campaign votes) because it couldn't attain the same position from 'member' votes, they dropped us, and went for other 'causes' instead.
        If you want to air your thoughts, and read other frozen pensioners thoughts too on the continuation, progress, and momentum of the campaign to unfreeze what's ours, go here........

        https://www.facebook.com/pensionjustice

        You'll find much, much more action than what's here, on what's left of a very dynamic and sadly depleted campaign page!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Thanks John, and a Very Merry Christmas to you too! Let's all hope for (and fight for) an Unfrozen, Happy New Year as well!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Hi John,
        Clause 20 is going to 'debated' at a Committee hearing on December 16 in the House of Lords.
        We are not going to able to send the committee written submissions, as we did for the Commons hearings. We also do not know (at the time of my writing this) who the committee members are. As soon as I do know I'll post it here.
        As an alternative, and for immediate up to date information I'd suggest you - or anyone else interested - visit the ICBP Facebook page at .......
        https://www.facebook.com/pensionjustice
        There's always someone there giving the latest, or asking about it.
        If you can't see what you want as a heading anywhere on that page, then go to the "Recent posts by others" section on the same page, and click "See all".
        I hope that helps.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        John Jones.
        Thanks for giving us the information about Lord Skelmersdale. He has shown interest in the past about frozen pensions, and if it helps you click on this link to see an exchange between him and Lord Feud. It will help you to see where he's coming from.

        http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201011/ldhansrd/text/110309-0001.htm

        Scroll down to "Pensions: Britons Living Abroad"

        John, there's a lot of information out there, and not all of it is correct. So that we don't make assumptions, it would be good to see Skelmersdale's reply to you, but to exchange email addresses is downright dodgy on a public forum.
        Maybe we'll find a way!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Andy. Thanks for the encouraging info. I certainly hope that there will be others who will want to speak in our support and on the day, will be able to.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Hey John, we've got the information source now, and you're quite correct, the will only be those Lords "speaking" set speeches. All the other Lords present though can vote on the Bill, or as I believe, aspects within it.
        If anyone knows it to be different, please correct me.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        John, this is important. Please can you tell us where you got this information from??

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Hi John,
        Keep up the good work!! Here's something that might help prevent idiotic replies like the one you had from the un-knowledgable Lord Skelmersdale.
        The following is part of a reply from a Freedom of Information request, number 595/2013 dated 7March 2013.
        "Bi-lateral agreements are not necessary in order for pensions paid outside Great Britain and the EU to be up-rated."
        There's a bit more but what I've quoted is the important part. ANYONE can verify its authenticity by Googling the request number I've noted.
        John, never forget - we are in the right, and we will win! Nothing is more sure!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        John Jones. Thanks a bunch for visiting the sites that Freda Piles put up here for you, and anyone else interested.
        Thanks also for not joining the AES Society (Apathetic Expats Society). There are way too many of them out there as it is!!
        More people like yourself is what our movement desperately needs. You have seen how little it takes to join the fight, to contribute, spread the word, and help rid the world of this shameful discrimination that the UK Parliament is guilty of.
        You mention back-dating to commencement date of pension. You might want to know that the British government is using this as an excuse for not changing it's policy.
        The ICBP and it's affiliates are therefore not asking for back-dating, but for a phasing in process to be adopted instead.
        Obviously there is disagreement amongst frozen expats about this course of action, but that is part of the argument that has been presented to the UK at the moment, and which has rejected out of hand by Steve Webb etc.
        John, just keep your ear to the ground for developments, but to keep fully abreast of the situation as it changes, then I'd strongly recommend to ANY frozen expat that they join one of the existing frozen expat organizations.
        Up-to-date arguments are crucial when it comes to spreading the word, and for encouraging others to join the fight!!
        Thank you once again.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Andy Robertson-Fox and John Jones. I think you can add to that idiocy of the US and UK Virgin Islands the lunacy that each side of the Niagara river, or closer still the 49th parallel that makes up the border between the USA and Canada.
        One side frozen, the other not!
        John, as you might have noticed this campaign on the 38 Degree forum didn't make the charts and become an 'adopted petition' in 38 speak.
        Nevertheless, the campaign to unfreeze frozen pensions is stronger than ever, thanks to no small part to the people who have contributed (and are still contributing) to this forum.
        The people who are fighting for this cruel, totally unfair and discriminatory policy to be overturned will never give up until the freeze has melted away into nothing.
        I don't know if you are a member of any of the marvellous groups that are fighting tooth and nail to rid the world of this shameful Clause 20 and Regulation 3, but in case you're not, please consider joining one, and help us obtain the parity we ruddy well paid for!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        I've just bashed away Andy!! I suggested they campaign for the removal of Clause 20 in the Draft Pension Bill, and emphasized they act on this existing and highly placed campaign. Our problems of today will be their problems of tomorrow if nothing's done!
        I'm not holding my breath though,

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Thank you Peter, I'm sure that piece of info will come in very handy!! It doesn't really surprise me though, but it's nice to get it in print, and from an unimpeachable source.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        I'll join Andy in thanking you "Anonymous" and agree with you totally. But you (and a whole lot of others) can do much more than that!!

        The Telegraph is running an article at the moment about "axing UK pensioners benefits" - a number of us are commenting on it and we would very much welcome your support and opinions.

        The Telegraph article has completely ignored the frozen expat pensioner!! We need to draw attention to this - and you can help!!

        Please go to The Telegraph at .....
        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/9490334/130000-get-state-pension-of-7-a-week.html

        and say what you think!!!

        We need support!! If we want the uprated pension that's ours by right - then we have to fight for it!! Some of us are fighting 24/7 - so help us out by commenting on all the articles that we will continue to bring to this site as "links".

        And while you're here - don't forget to vote!!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        I just did Morgeo - thanks for letting me know about it! There's plenty of room for more there too!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Peter/James
        This is something you probably know about, as it concerns Australian/UK Pensions.

        http://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-night/features/article/-/14271133/response-from-department-human-services/

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Some time ago it was suggested that we all put "links" on this forum so that others can use them - pass them on - comment on them if possible - or just read the articles that the links go to.

        Here is a link to an article about the "expansion" into other countries - of the UK winter fuel payment.
        It's a little light on comments - so I hope that some more will join "Nine Penneth" as he's feeling a tad lonesome!!

        Here's the link.....
        http://www.iexpats.com/2012/07/expats-will-pick-up-200-winter-fuel-bonus-after-ecj-ruling/

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Peter. The billboard idea was just a suggestion for the ICBP to consider as an affordable means of gaining publicity in the UK (London) for our fight.

        Most of us are already contributing to various UK expat frozen pension organizations, such as the CABP, both in annual fees and on occasion to "fighting funds", and it's impossible to ask us for yet more. We're frozen pensioners remember - not bottomless money pits.

        The billboard idea is one that could and should be checked out, as the "renter" can choose the location of the board - bus shelter - telephone box etc that they want to put their ads on.

        A bus shelter outside Parliament with a possible slogan "End Frozen Pensions Now" wouldn't cost a packet (from £120 a week, 2 week minimum) but would pay dividends in raising "our" moral.

        It'd be something we could see - particularly if it was possible for Champollion to photograph it, and pass it on to CABP's Justice magazine.

        If we could rent the "right" location then maybe the ICBP could afford it for a couple of months. Not a big deal moneywise - but a big deal for those in the deep freeze!!!

        Peter, the Google adwords is a great idea, and although I'm not exactly sure how it works - I'll take your word for it that it's looking good, Good for you for coming up with the idea and going for it!!!

        We need all the help and exposure we can get, and every small avenue should be looked at and explored. OK, newspaper ads are too expensive - but could someone check the billboard idea out for us, and come back with some firm figures for the locations I've mentioned??

        If the cost is prohibitive, then we can forget it and move on to something else, but someone find out first before we dismiss it - that's only fair!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        It's been asked on a number of occasions recently what makes The POP Group successful, and what have we accomplished that the larger groups/associations haven't.

        First and foremost it's being able to communicate with other UK (expat or not) frozen pensioners in countries all over the globe, that brings us together in our fight to unfreeze our pensions.
        In our case that communication has lead to friendship and a camaraderie that has helped us work closely together, and enable us to get the good results that we have.

        The feeling of isolation and uselessness has been eliminated, because now we are not alone. We can reach each other easily by email - phone if necessary - and some of us use Skype too.
        POP works very well by the mantra "We do what we can - when we can and if we can".

        The good relationship we have comes at a cost of course - but that cost is not monetary because membership of The POP Group is free - the only cost is that of time. Time that is spent on a computer emailing and discussing what action we're going to take next - or reporting on an action that an individual member has already taken. Time that is spent enlightening and educating those who don't know or don't want to know of our predicament and what we're doing to try and fix it.

        Be it letters to an editor of local, national, home country and foreign newspapers - comments on online articles - letters (hardcopy and email) to MP's and Ministers (both country of residence and UK) - encouraging others to sign relevant petitions - designing and distributing POP Group posters and business cards - contacting a now defunct pensioner group to encourage them to carry on fighting, and asking their members to join other groups, etc. I could go on but honestly the list is too long.

        A big advantage for us is the fact that we are spread around the planet in different time zones. This allows us to respond very rapidly to any online article that we can comment on. The article is found by internet search - usually Google Alert - each one of us has the Alert set up to cover different angles, so that between us all we get a really good picture of what's happening on the UK pension front. A link to the article is then sent around - by the "finder" to the rest of the group, for further action to be taken.

        The comments made of course depend on the article, and if the writer has made an incorrect statement then we add a comment to the site containing a correction - which we've done on many occasions.

        We have also emailed the writer directly and supplied corrections which have been gratefully received - AOL is recent example, where a writer has got back to us asking us if we'd be prepared to advise him when it comes to future articles. We replied in the affirmative as we wouldn't want incorrect information to be published again.

        Sometimes an article is published and there are comments made on it that aren't correct - so we enlighten the writer with the truth - but often it takes more than one attempt to convince the other person that they don't know too much about the subject. We have never left the field without educating the other on the errors in their thinking; the incorrect statements they've repeated etc etc.

        Being in such a close knit group has allowed us to educate each other in the subject of frozen pensions - while I don't profess to be an expert - I know a heck of a lot more now than I did before I became a member of POP, and if someone needs help with some information we can usually find it pretty quickly.

        But I think what we've accomplished doesn't just come to "We've done this or that or the other". We've accomplished something more than that - we've got the satisfaction of knowing that we're helping to change the thinking of a lot of people in favour of thawing the frozen pension.

        We can't claim - as no group can - that we've done it on our own, but I firmly believe we're helping the fight - and each other - by being proactive and not sitting around waiting for something to happen.

        We're all fighting for the same result - but if we walk along different paths to get there - does it matter that much??

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Anne Puckridge has asked me to post this comment on her behalf, as she is having difficulties with the 38 Degree website. My own will appear shortly.

        Copy from Anne ....
        James, you learned of the letter through a GROUP member. We are a close-knit GROUP and any relevant approaches to individuals pertain to the GROUP.

        Now that you have had the advantage of comparing our letter to the others you have seen, would you be fair enough to let us see these others as well? It could be a case of "two (or more) heads.. . "

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Yes Andy - As they say "Wouldn't it be loverly??"
        Just the thought of those huge ads gives me a warm fuzzy feeling :-))
        Just the thought of Cameron, Clegg, Osborne, Hague and Ian Duncan-Smith maybe looking at them too makes me laugh out loud!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        On the subject of UK advertising costs - here's a sample .....

        Full page colour ad in Daily Mail around £30,000......

        Full page colour ad in local newspaper (Newsquest Group) £2584......

        As above but with discount (because times are hard) £450 for the newspaper and a supplement, or just £350 for the newspaper.
        This is with the Newsquest Group for a paper that has a readership of 50,000. Title of newspaper unknown.
        (source Business Forum) ..........................

        Billboard (standard 48 sheet) anywhere in UK - £165 to £200 per week - 2 week minimum.
        Phone box full side - anywhere in the UK - 2 week minimum - £90 a week.
        Bus stop end panel or 1/3 front side - anywhere in UK - 2 week minimum - £120 a week.
        (source Outdoor Advertising UK Ltd) .........................

        Reckon we could afford a couple of boards, a few phone boxes and maybe a bus stop or two outside the UK Parliament - that should do the job nicely!!!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        I think Jane Davies's idea is a good one, and one that should be explored by the ICBP and it's associates.

        We can send letter after letter to the UK daily papers - but if they don't get printed or get read by the bloke on the street, then we have to try another route.

        A lot of us comment on online articles and the like, but who reads them - we do, and people like us with the same interests. Politicians, they're a maybe!!

        We're looking for someone entirely different - who doesn't know about our issue with the UK gov't - and who opens the Daily Mirror or The Sun every morning!! We need impact at this point in time and large ads in popular daily papers would do that.

        If the cost of such a campaign is too great and it can't be done just for that reason - then the members of ICBP & Co should know about that and then go for something different instead.

        An updated and new-look ICBP website is great, but people have to know about it first before they'll go there. That's where some LARGE ads could just fit the bill.

        Just think about it, eh??

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        I believe most of the contributors to this forum know that the ICBP is committed to the worldwide abolition of the UK's frozen pension policy.

        The problem as I see it is the average UK pensioner-to-be probably doesn't know who the ICBP are - let alone know that the organization is working to rid all "frozen" countries of the UK's pension policy, and not just the Commonwealth ones that are so frequently mentioned.

        I believe that now we need to start to emphasise the total number of countries affected by the freeze in order to educate everyone - legislators and public alike - just how far this cruel UK pension policy has spread its tentacles of discrimination.

        I believe every opportunity should be grasped - to let as many people as possible know what - and who - we are fighting for, and that we will never stop fighting until we get what we've paid for!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Welcome back to David Austin - who was dead right when he commented on May 30 that we are being discriminated against because of where we live.

        Well judging by the list of frozen countries - up to date or not - the UK is responsible for a hell of a lot of discrimination around this planet.

        Let other voices (and other countries beside Australia & Canada) join in the chorus of denouncement. Let's shout it out LOUD & CLEAR.

        END THIS CRUEL POLICY NOW AND PAY THESE PENSIONERS WHAT THEY ARE OWED!!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        @ peter - Good to hear from you again Peter.

        Many thanks for your corrections to the list on my comment - but I hope you got the gist of what I was trying to get across.

        I'm sorry if I appear to out-of-date as far as the list of "frozen" countries is concerned, but I copied it this morning off the BAPA website.

        Perhaps someone needs to check that one, because the Virgin Islands (British) - Sark - Guam - Samoa Western - Peurto Rico are all shown as frozen. Albania is down twice on the BAPA list too - hence the bad copy!

        I made a typo on Samoa Western & Tours in my earlier comment - so my apologies for that.

        Bad copy or not - it's onwards and upwards!!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        I know that compared with Australia and Canada many of the other "frozen" countries have a tiny frozen population - some as few as 10 or even less UK expats resident within their borders.

        This is all the more incentive for the UK to do a blanket fix by "simple Parliamentary legislation" as opposed to individual international "agreements" as has been the theme song of the DWP for many, many moons.

        A song which has now been shown to be an outright lie - the same as the current "Can't afford it" untruth!!

        I wonder what the next one will be??

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        On the same slant as Andy and Morgeo, this is a copy of the comment that I just posted on the Telegraph's article "Canada salutes "frozen pension fighters".

        To those of you who maybe living in any of those countries listed - it's time to turn the heat up to HIGH - and fight for what's yours!!!!!

        Copy ..... Thank you Diane Finley and thank you Canada for saying what you think of the UK's disgraceful treatment of just 4% of their own retired citizens.
        By joining Australia in denouncing this cruel discriminatory policy, you have shown the world that the fraudulent manner in which the UK rewards their pensioners will not be tolerated by other fair minded countries.
        So how about it - the rest of you "frozen" lands - can you join in as well?? Just what is keeping you all quiet?? There's quite a few of you aren't there??
        Between you all you could make quite a noise, and a huge difference to the quality of lives for the impoverished UK pensioners living within your borders!!!!!
        By supporting Australia and now Canada, you will also support your own country by obtaining for retired UK expat pensioners what they should have been paid in the first place - and that is their own money in the form of a - as Canada rightly says in their statement - a "FULLY" indexed pension - and not a graduated and incremental one either!!!

        This is the list of countries that should now join Australia and Canada in denouncing the UK, and the unfair, unjust and cruel treatment of their own "frozen" expat pensioners.

        Afghanistan. China. Iraq. Pakistan. South Korea. Albania. Colombia. Japan. Panama. Sri Lanka. Algeria. Congo, Democratic Republic (Zaire). Jordan. Papua New Guinea. Sri Lanka. Andorra. Cook Islands. Kenya. Paraguay. St Helena & Deps. Anguilla. Costa Rica. Kiribati. Peru. St Lucia. Antigua. Cuba. Kuwait. Puerto Rico. St Martins. Afghanistan. Djibouti. Laos. Qatar. St Vincent and the Grenadines. Albania. Dominican Commonwealth. (Dominica). Lebanon. Rebublic Of Georgia. Sudan. Argentina. Dominican Republic. Lesotho. Republic Of Armenia. Surinam. Ascension Island. Ecuador. Liberia. Republic Of Azerbaijan. Swaziland. Egypt. Libya. Republic Of Belarus. Syria. The Bahamas. El Salvador. Macau. Republic Of Kazakhstan. Tahiti. Bahrain. Ethiopia. Madagascar. Republic Of Kyrgyzstan. Taiwan. Bangladesh. Falkland Islands + Deps. Malawi. Republic Of Moldovia. Tanzania. Barbuda. Faroe Islands. Malaysia. Republic Of Turkmenistan. Thailand. Belize. Fiji. Maldives. Republic Of Uzbekistan. The Russian Federation. Benin. French Overseas Departments. Mexico. Republic Of Yemen. Togo. Bhutan. The Gambia. Monaco. Rwanda. Tonga. Bolivia. Ghana. Montserrat. Samoa. Western Tours. Botswana. Greenland. Morocco. San Marino. Trinidad and Tobago. Brazil. Grenada. Mozambique. Sarawak. Tunisia. Brunei. Darussalam. Guam. Namibia. Sark. Turks & Caicos Islands. Burkina. Faso. Guatemala. Nepal. Saudi Arabia. Uganda. Burma. GuineaNevis, St Kitts. Nevis. Senegal. Ukraine. Cambodia. (Kampuchea). Guyana. New Caledonia. Seychelles. Uruguay. Cameroon. Haiti. New Zealand. Sharjah. Vanuatu. Honduras. Nicaragua. Sierra Leone. Venezuela. Cape Verde Islands. Hong Kong. Niger. Singapore. Vietnam. Cayman Islands. India. Nigeria. Solomon Islands. Virgin Islands (British). Central African Republic. Indonesia. Norfolk Island. Somalia. Virgin Islands (USA). Chile. Iran. Oman. South Africa. Zambia, and last but not least Zimbabwe.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Next weekend (9th June) is the Annual General Meeting of the CABP in Mississauga Toronto. As I am a fully paid up member - I will be attending. I wouldn't miss it for the world!!
        If any CABP members living close to Toronto read this - please come too and say your piece - it's your organization - you've paid for it!!!

        Also - as the issue of Bird and Parkinson has been raised and questioned here - and no satisfactory answer has been forthcoming - I fully intend to ask about our "Ambassadors" and what they've been up to.

        Any more questions you want me to ask so I can make a list????

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Peter, you mentioned the now sadly disolved SAABP in your last comment, so I've a question for you.

        Did any of the ICBP affiliates make any attempt to get the members of the SAABP "on board" before it folded - and if so, were they in any way successfull?

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        The fact that this campaign is number one when others far more "in the public eye" haven't generated the votes that this one has is remarkable.
        The fact that this campaign has been running now for nearly a year, and yet still hasn't made it to the "petition" stage is indefensible and totally shameful.
        What Andy Robertson Fox suggested on Feb 4 is a way for 38 Degrees to open the door of democracy for those who are at the moment being denied an entry.
        38 Degrees - this is a golden opportunity to render a service to those who are in their "golden years" and who have done their "service".
        You have asked repeatedly for us to support your petitions and we have done so willingly. You have now been asked for your support.
        Andy Robertson Fox has made a very reasonable and workable suggestion - echoed by others - and I for one (being a 38 Degree member) see no reason at all why you cannot do what he suggests and still not compromise your own rules - which, from your past record you do bend from time to time as the case demands it.
        Well this case does demand it, as it always has, and as it always will do, until the changes are made which will remove the discrimination that 4% of British state pensioners have had to needlessly endure.
        38 Degrees can help make this change, and add their powerful voice to those already shouting for justice - for British justice, and for fair play - British fair play.
        You've helped change the face of campaigning in the UK forever - let's see you change the faces of those frozen pensioners from one of despair and foreboding, to one of happiness and security.
        As your conscience must dictate to you by now, let's see you do it.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        The last thing I want to do is offend here, but I thought I had an understanding when the ownership of "The POP Group" was transferred to me. The understanding I had was that the original owner of The POP Group (Meg) was leaving because she wanted to, and not because she was "tossed out" as was said on 38 Degrees a short while ago.

        I don't think I misunderstood the meaning of ....
        "....... well, that’s a relief. Jeff is now owner/moderator of The POP Group ....... "I’m gone. Cheers. Meg." I don't believe I misinterpreted those words at all.

        When the ownership was transferred to me, it was made very clear that I could do with the Group as I liked - give it away to someone else - or maybe work with it. I decided to do the latter, and that decision was one the best I've ever made in my life.

        That decision has allowed me to continue working with a very small group of dedicated people that are passionate about what they believe in (ending the UK's frozen pension policy) and are determined to do something about it.

        The other decision we (as a group) made was to do what we can, when we can, and if we can. If for any reason any one of us can't do our bit - be it for health concerns, vacation, or even adverse weather conditions, then the previous sentence applies and the door is held wide open. If on the other hand someone new joins and does absolutely nothing - then after a trial period the door is closed. I believe that's fair.

        I have never denied Meg the credit due for the work she did in forming "The POP Group" and getting it up and running. That said - we've moved on a long way from that point. We've had to adapt to changes that happen on the way, and I believe that's ongoing, but I will never forget how "The POP Group" came into being.

        As small a group as we are, we've made our presence known by the pressure that we've exerted, and the results that we've obtained.
        Not too many people know that we even exist, but we're proud of what we've achieved and the manner in which we achieved it. We will continue in that manner!!

        All the people who visit this webpage share a common goal, and that is to overturn the frozen pension policy, be it by persuasion, education, discussion or other legitimate means. To do this requires unity and understanding amongst ourselves.

        Woodrow Wilson said "We cannot be separated in interest or divided in purpose. We stand together until the end". The end is in sight ....

        I would also like to wish everyone a very Happy, Healthy, "Unfrozen" New Year.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Based on the past record of various governments when - as opposition - they blasted the frozen pension policy - but then once they assumed power did a smart about-turn - doesn't anyone think we have the right to be careful about accepting this "Working Group" as face value and being genuine?

        Peter, I know the ICBP is genuine - don't get me wrong - it's the UK goverment I don't trust. We've all seen the tactics they've deployed in the past - let's see the evidence of change first before we give it a standing ovation!

        If they're genuine this time ("if" being longest word in the English dictionary) then yes of course I welcome them with open arms - as every other frozen pensioner will no doubt.

        There's a saying - you might have heard it .....

        "Never test the depth of the water with both feet" I think it applies in our case.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Oh Andy, how stupid of me - I conveniently forgot about the Select Committee for Social Security, and all the other groups, task forces, think tanks and working bodies that have also studied our predicament in the past - and found in our favour!

        But then UK politicians are renowned for having extremely poor memories, and like me conveniently forget things - I think it's the climate - and must be reminded of the way to fix an issue - by Working Groups if necessary - time and time again!

        I mean - have you ever known any politician admit they're wrong? It's the first thing they're taught - maybe before they learn how to walk! Never - never say you were wrong. Say you were unaware, misinformed, ignorant of the fact, innocent,unacquainted, oblivious - you get my drift - but never ever admit you were wrong!!!!

        Having repeatedly said that uprating of our pensions would be too expensive for the country to afford - how can they backtrack from something like that?

        Climbing down is what a politician never wllingly likes to do - the upward path is much easier - a bit like climbing a cliff - never look back, forget it and look up! And maybe all the other people who put their little crosses on those little bits of paper will forget it too!!

        Tell you what - I'll never forget what they've done to us - not as long as I've got a h##e in my a##!!!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Stall, stall, and stall again, delay, deny, twist facts. It's the name of the political game isn't it? When you can see you're losing - play for time in the hope that something will show up to stop your opponent's advance.
        Only now nothing will turn up as they've run out of excuses.
        But now of course they need a "Working Group" to tell them what's been written in the sky for years!!
        These multi-faceted politicians are past masters when it comes to "doing a Nelson" (no offense intended James) of looking directly at an issue and positively saying it doesn't even exist!
        It does exist Mr Cameron, pensioners are suffering in poverty as a direct result of your cruel discriminatory pension poliicy.
        If you think that now the guns will be put away because a so called Working Group has been formed - no bloody chance!!!
        Mr Cameron, as has been demanded of you by countless voices, and will continue to be demanded until it does - END IT!!!!!!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Peter, in reply to your earlier remark about a possible CCBP.
        I would strongly suggest that there are quite enough UK expat pensioner's groups around already, without thinking about adding another to the mix.
        Do we really need to form yet another group that will attract even more apathetic members?? I don't think so!
        What we really need to do is to counter the apathy within the existing groups, and make their members get off their backsides and "do a bit" for themselves for a change.
        The attitude of "I've paid my dues - you deliver" just doesn't cover it any more! Make them earn their keep - it's the only way to exert maximum pressure.
        I'm part of a group - you may say "Oh no, not another one" - but this one is different - we work damned hard for privilege of belonging to the most active group of UK expat pensioners I've ever had the pleasure of knowing - albeit electronically!!
        We have one item on our criteria for joining - you work - and if you don't - you get tossed out - simple! And get this - membership is free!!!
        James Nelson asked Jane a short while ago .....
        "Now, what are you doing about it? Have you done anything more than write on this forum?"
        I can tell you that if every rank and file member of the ICBP consortium did even 1% of what Jane has done the pension pot would be boiling - not iced over and frozen!!
        Can anyone otherwise explain how a very small number of dedicated pensioners, can obtain results totally out of proportion to their numbers, and how a huge number of pensioners can not??
        Apathy is a disease that spreads, and forming another "paid membership" group will encourage it to tighten its grip.
        I believe we need less groups - not more. Surely the news of the SAABP considering disbanding is enough. We need to concentrate and amplify our considerable power, not further divide and silence it.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        A number of regular 38 Degree contributors are in contact by means of a private email group. The purpose of the group is to get together and discuss suggestions and ideas. Then to take action in the form of emailing or writing to MPs; newspapers etc, or in fact, take any reasonable steps to hasten the demise of the despicable frozen pension policy.
        If you would like to join us and take part, then email me at jcthepop@gmail.com for further information, and I'll reply as soon as I can.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        All of us who have visited this website know what we're here for. It's to vote for or comment on this forum that's being presented benevolently by 38 Degrees and its staff.

        A most important benefit of this forum has been the opening of the door of communication, that's allowed UK expat pensioners from all over the world to "talk" to each other by means of the forum comments, and for that we should thank 38 Degrees profusely.

        We have become used to reading what other UK expats think, and what they would like to see done. We've seen some brilliant comments and some stupid ones. We've seen calmness and craziness. We've nearly seen it all.

        We have become united in our worldwide opposition to the unfair and discriminatory pension policy currently being practiced by the UK government. Our comments show the strength of our feelings of outrage; frustration; anger and disappointment.

        However, the one factor allowing us to communicate at this time could be taken away at any moment, and that is the 38 Degree forum, as we do know if and when it will become a full campaign or, indeed, simply be shelved.

        With that in mind, a number of regular 38 Degree contributors are in contact by means of a private email group, which is independent of this website. The purpose of the group is to discuss suggestions and ideas, and then to take action in the form of emailing or writing to MPs; newspapers etc, or, in fact, take any reasonable steps to hasten the demise of the frozen pension policy.

        If you would like to join us and take part in this group, then email us at jcthepop@gmail.com for further information.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Morgeo,
        Andy, Jane and I would like you to get in touch with us. We would like to swap email addresses with you before this campaign moves into a new dimension and we, perhaps, lose the best means of communicating with each other that we've had for a long time.
        However, there is another system up and running and we would like to "talk" to you about it. It will involve us trading email addresses, but as this is a public forum, we obviously can't trade them here. This is what I suggest, and I know it works as others have followed this route successfully.
        I run a photoblog called "The Chippbutty" here's the link....
        http://chippbutty.blogspot.com
        You can Google it if you want to, you will find it.
        When it opens, look at one of my photo groups (called a post).
        Under the bottom photo of any group, you will see the phrase .......
        ....... "0 Comments".
        If you click on this phrase, a window will open that will allow you to write a "comment".
        The comment can be anything, but your Email address would be great :-))
        To send what you have written, copy the weird security letters into the box "Word Verification".
        For "Choose an Identity" click on the dot "Anonymous".
        Click on "Publish your comment" to send it the comment to me.
        The window will change to a new open form, and on the top you should see the words in green "Your comment has been saved and will be visible after blog owner approval". The "blog owner" is me.
        Seeing those words in green is your confirmation that your comment has been sent to me, and to nobody else.
        You can then close the window.
        That "comment" then comes direct to me for "moderation" where I can publish or delete it.
        After making a note of your Email address, I will delete your comment from the blog.
        I will then email you back, and that way you will have my address too.
        This is the method that I used to make first contact with Jane and Andy. They can vouch for my integrity and the security aspect of the method also.
        I hope to hear from you before the 38 campaign closes the shop, and we lose all contact with one another completely!
        A note to others who may want to "trade".
        My blog is public, and anyone can comment on a "Post".
        Remember - I decide on what comments to keep or delete, so no time wasters please. None of us have got much of it left!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        I've just come from the EDM 1895 page ....

        http://www.edms.org.uk/2010-11/1895.htm

        A line on it says ... "This motion has been signed by a total of 66 MPs"
        Yesterday it was 59. There's hope yet!!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        In a recent newspaper article about frozen pensions, a Dept of Works and Pensions spokesman said, ""The state pension is uprated throughout the European Economic Area and in countries where we have reciprocal social security agreements."
        I know that Canada has no reciprocal agreement with the UK, but - If a Canadian citizen retires to the UK, his Canadian pension is paid as normal, plus he receives yearly increases for inflation (from Canada).
        However, if a British citizen retires to Canada, his pension is frozen as soon as he starts drawing it.
        Reciprocal means "shared, equal, give and take". So why does Canada always give, while the UK always takes, or is that the norm??

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Jane. Your analogy fits our situation to a "T". It's "legalised" fraud and theft based on where you live, pure and simple.
        Politicians and governments make their own rules that suit them as they go along. When the law no longer suits them, they just change it.
        As the pressure from different sources is mounting on the UK government, I believe that change is (eventually) coming.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        I've shortened my previous post (and reposted it) to get rid of the "more" button. 38º should fix this problem, as sometimes you want to say more than you have room for without resorting to this method.
        There are also UK based pension campaigns on the Facebook list, which have the same "no votes" problem, so I think a gentle email or two might be in order, and could open some previously closed eyes.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        I agree with Meg's comment about many senior's obvious reluctance to use Facebook, and similar social networking sites. It's going to be a problem that won't go away until the next more computer friendly generation of seniors arrive on the scene. 38º probably know already, but I think it's well worth emphasising to them that the problem is adversly affecting our possibility of being selected as a "main campaign". 38º says they monitor these comments, so I also hope they take notes!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        I'm very sorry that Anne has had to leave, and we will all miss her comments on this forum greatly. There's no doubt that we will all fight on until the injustice from the UK is changed, and we receive what we've all paid for. To give us anything less is fraud and theft!!
        On another point. If you click on a persons "blue" username to see their full comment, you only get the last 30 days shown. I believe you used to see all of them. But not now!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        PLEASE - USE MEG'S LINK JUST BELOW MINE, AND GO TO THE FACEBOOK VOTE PAGE AND VOTE THERE BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!!!!!!
        WHEN THE LIST OPENS, CLICK ON "90 More"
        SCROLL DOWN TO THE "Fairness, justice and equality....." HEADING.
        AND CLICK ON THE SQUARE ON THE LEFT OF THE HEADING.
        THAT'S IT - IF YOU'VE DONE THAT - YOU'VE VOTED!!
        PLEASE HURRY - WE'VE NO TIME LEFT TO WASTE!!!!!!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        As the "more" button STILL seems to be faulty at the moment, there is another way to see a long comment in full.
        Click on the user's name (in blue) and you will go to their "Profile" page, where their comments are displayed as written.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Meg.
        Thanks for the tips on copying your link, but I've got Windows XP and my right click doesn't produce "Copy link address" or even an accurate copy. When I copy It misses both the "&amps" from you link. So I'm going to stick with yours, at least it's reliable which is more than I can say about Windows XP!! From your earlier comment, did you get permission?

        As a matter of interest, and in a partial reply to Peter Wells. I am also a member of CABP and did not receive any email like Peter's from them.
        My invitation to this forum came from the ICBP on March 18 2011, and was sent to me because I had previously signed an ICBP on-line petition in early 2010.
        My understanding is that only those who had taken part in the ICBP on-line petition were to be emailed about the 38 Degree campaign, because the thinking was only those people would be inclined to "go through with it".
        Well, we're still here, and we're still waiting!!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        What a time for my computer to act up!!!! It is bloody disgraceful that we've had the rug pulled out from under us at a time when we needed sure footing the most. This campaign has been maintained in first position for months now, but it looks like the ICBP is behaving like Nelson and deliberately looking the other way.
        I've emailed enough on this and had non-committal replies, we're committed enough! Where are the people we're giving our contributions to every year when you need them?? Action Fund?? - sure :-((

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        The top campaign on the 38 Degree Facebook page right now has over 540 votes Our "Fairness...." campaign has 28.
        We MUST use today's technology to reach the people (38 Degrees) that use will use it themselves to affect all our tomorrows.
        As Jane says. Please, please vote on the Facebook page on PETER MORRIS'S link below.
        Honestly, we as a generation can't ignore this!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Most of us posting comments here have one thing in common, we're expats, and I am proud to be such. Expat by the way is defined as "To give up residence in one's homeland." according to one dictionary. There's nothing there about giving up any pension rights!!
        My wife and I left the UK to find a better life for our kids and ourselves, and we found it. Later on of course we found out that we would be penalized for our choice of where we had come to live. That country being Canada.

        Whoever we are, and whichever "frozen" country we live in, I know that we have one goal in common, and that is to receive what we are all entitled to, what we are all fighting for, and that of course is our indexed pension from the UK.

        How (not if) we can achieve that goal is entirely another matter, and I think that online discussions, like this forum, are of great help in getting our numerous points of view across. The democratic nature of this forum allows us many different ways to express ourselves, and we should be thankful for the opportunity it presents. Opportunities like this do not come around very often, and I believe that we should respect this forum (and any others like it) by sticking to the subject at hand.

        The democratic process is a wonderful thing, but abusing that process, by omission, suppression, or blind continuation (as is the case in UK Pensions legislation) of a clause that would index our non-indexed pensions, is disgraceful and discriminatory. There are lots of other words that could be used here to describe our "frozen" situation., but I'll refrain from adding more, and just hope that my meaning has come across.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Congratulations folks on reaching another milestone - our comment total has reached 3000!!
        However we can't be complacent, as "Legal Aid" is gathering speed, and has recently ousted "King's Lynn" from second place.
        Please give us your 3 votes, and if you can spare a minute, your comment too!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Many thanks to all those generous people who have voted lately to push our vote total up to where it is right now.
        You've voted in our support, so why not comment also??
        Your words and opinions would be very welcome indeed, and would make a refreshing change (no insult intended) to the other folk who have been regular and frequent posters on this forum.
        Regulars or not, your support is very much appreciated. Thanks again.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Meg. Thanks a lot for your three votes, they're much apprecaited. 'Nuff said here!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Jimmy.
        Thank you for your 3 votes and also for your helpful comment. It means a lot to have a "new face" on the scene.
        I hope you'll return often, and that you'll tell many others about this campaign, so that they can vote and voice their opinions also.
        Much has been said on this forum, so it's possible that all the 'bases' have been covered already, but the more "new faces" that vote and comment, the wider and more interesting the issue becomes.
        It's up to all of us to encourage others to visit this campaign, to lend their support, and to give their three votes!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Jane.
        I'll second what Dennis and Audrey said.
        In getting your letter published, you have accomplished what many have tried to do, and that's no easy task. I'm sure that this will bring about an increase in not only votes on this forum, but hopefully comments also.
        Thanks once again to you for your letter, and to the International Express for its support.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Glenn Hardie. Thank you for your comment and for your three votes. They mean so much for everyone who is concerned with this campaign.
        Please could you tell us in which country you live? It helps us to have an idea how far our voice is reaching.
        Also please could you ask your friends and relatives to visit this site and support us. That would be great!
        Thanks again.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Harrison. I apologise for my typo, and I believe you are correct about there being at least 150 frozen countries.
        But could you imagine over 150 ambassadors from those countries arriving at the Foreign Office in UK at the same time, to protest the discriminatory treatment of UK expat pensioners living in their countries? It's a lovely thought!!
        Re - National Insurance Fund. (NIF) Wikipedia show the enormous surplus the fund is carrying at present. It really is mind blowing!!
        Here's a copy of their text...

        "Each year there is a surplus of the order of £2 billion. The NIF had a surplus of over £34 billion as at 2005/06, £38 billion in 2006/7 and the Government Actuary's Department forecasts that this surplus will grow to over £114.7 billion by 2012.[3]

        The surplus is loaned to the government through the Debt Management Office which is part of the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt in Call Notice Deposits (previously invested in gilt-edged securities) and interest on these invested monies is paid to the NIF - £1.3 billion in the 2007/08 year."

        So the real reason the UK doesn't want to pay us becomes apparent. If they pay us, they'd have less money to lend themselves. I wonder what sort of interest rate the NIF are charging their own bosses??
        As I said earlier, EXACTLY WHERE IS THE BURDEN ON THE UK TAXPAYER????

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        At present there are 50 "frozen" countries where the UK pension is not index linked to inflation. Some of those countries give financial support to expat pensioners so they can pay their way.
        Would it not make sense for those countries to unite (diplomatically) and together apply pressure to the UK, instead of one at a time, which seems to be the case right now?? Fifty countries can apply a lot more pressure than one!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        WHEN YOU SIGN UP, PLEASE SELECT 3 VOTES FROM THE MENU.
        Your comments are just what's needed to get our message across!
        But your 3 VOTES are needed to get 38 Degrees to adopt our campaign.
        When you select 3 VOTES, they go on your comments automatically.
        So please do your bit for all of us and VOTE for "Fairness, Justice and Equality". Then ask your friends and relatives to support us too.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Welcome "Harrison" to this 38 Degree forum. Your 3 votes would also be very much welcomed. If you have voted an orange box appears with a number 1, 2 or 3 alongside your "picture" at the left of your comment. At this moment you haven't voted, so could you please fix that, as you appear to support what's going on here Believe me we need all the votes we can get. Thanks.
        You mentioned in your previous comment......
        Getting this burden "off the backs of Canadian taxpayers, and onto the backs of British taxpayers where it properly belongs".
        We have already contributed into the UK National Insurance pension scheme fund which, as I understand it, is literally BILLIONS in credit. Pensions are drawn from this fund, and not from the general UK tax base.
        So exactly where is the burden??

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Tomorrow - May 2 - we have an election in Canada. When you read the comments of Malcolm and Dennis, you know straight away why voter turn out is so low. Everyone knows now that most politicians are there for only one thing - to feather their nests, so why give them the chance? The promise you the feast, but they give you the crumbs.
        One thing in our favour now is that pensioners are a growing bunch. Sadly some of us will pass on before the "freeze" thaws, but ever more will join our swelling ranks. As evidence of our growing strength, the Canadian NDP party says on its website:
        "We will work with the provinces to bring about increases to your Canada/Quebec Pension Plan benefit, with the eventual goal to double the benefits you receive".
        Of course the key word here is "eventual", but do you think that there'd even be a mention of us if we were not becoming a force to be reckoned with, and to be recognised??
        If we live in a "frozen" country, as Canada is, we must not only press the UK politicians as hard as we can, we must also push our own governments harder too. Mounting diplomatic pressure on the UK can only help us.
        The harder we push, the louder we shout, the quicker we will get UK politicians to end this blatant policy of discrimination.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Beryl Holt. Thank you so much for your 3 votes and also for your comment. It means a lot to have a "new face" on the scene, and I hope you'll return often, and that you'll tell others about this campaign, so that they can vote too
        Peter. Thanks for the reply. I hope it helps Anne in her quest for more votes for your campaign. If different usernames are possible with one email address, perhaps someone will tell us.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        PETER MORRIS.
        Anne Puckridge has asked a very good question here. I do not know the answer to it.
        Do you???????

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Much has been said in this campaign against the UK's discriminatory frozen pension policy. However much, much more could be said if only the ICBP and its associated groups, would encourage it's members to VOTE and comment here. Despite repeated calls on them to contact their members to VOTE, I've seen nothing. I'm a member too, and I've received no emails from them on this issue. After all, they asked us to become involved in the first place, and I believe we've all done that! How about some reciprocation??

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        DIANE DUCKETT. Thank you so much for your comments and for your three votes. They mean so much for everyone who is concerned with this campaign. Please could you tell us what country you are voting from? It helps us to have an idea how far our voice is reaching. Could you ask your friends and relatives to visit this site and support us also. Thanks again.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        James. I have been doing exactly what you are recommending for over two weeks now. The "Welcome" posts I have left on 38 refer to a speciic person, and I believe they should remain. They refer to an earlier comment by that person who might not have voted. If you check back on my 'activity', you will see that no general "Welcome" comment remains, as it was deleted when the last one was added. I've seen Andy's good work and if his "Welcome" comment drops from view then I'll put one on myself. I believe he reciprocates. We try, but we're not perfect.The world is a big place, and Andy and I are just two people trying to make a difference in it, so if someone else wants to "bridge the gap" caused by our time zone differences, then please step foward. I am in Canada, and Andy is in Thailand. ICBP where are YOU?????

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Welcome RICHARD & STEPHANIE to our campaign. It IS going to work!!
        I have a feeling in my bones (and it's not rheumatism)!!
        WHEN YOU SIGN UP, PLEASE SELECT 3 VOTES FROM THE MENU.
        Your comments are just what's needed to get our message across!
        But your 3 VOTES are needed to get 38 Degrees to adopt our campaign.
        When you select 3 VOTES, they go on your comments automatically.
        So please support all of us and VOTE for "Fairness, Justice and Equality". Then ask your friends & relatives to support us too!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Thank you very much those who have just added a total of four votes. If you would like to return and comment, then we would know who "in person" to thank properly!!
        We need as many votes as we can get, so it's great to have all this support. The louder we shout, the more they will hear!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Welcome KEN BROWN to our campaign, and thanks for your great comment!
        WHEN YOU SIGN UP, PLEASE SELECT 3 VOTES FROM THE MENU.
        Your comments are just what's needed to get our message across!
        But your 3 VOTES are needed to get 38 Degrees to adopt our campaign.
        When you select 3 VOTES, they go on your comments automatically.
        So please do your bit for all of us and VOTE for "Fairness, Justice and Equality". Then ask your friends and relatives to support us too.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Good morning from cool Canada. Zero degrees (not 38) in Burlington. Back at you Andy from your previous comment - NO THEY DID NOT.
        There is an old English proverb that says ..."Fair exchange is no robbery"
        We have "exchanged" our cash for a "fair" indexed pension, so where the hell is it??

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Dennis & Audrey. That was a quite some comment. I can just picture those "faceless people" toiling away like slaves in a salt mine! It's a thankless task that should be rewarded from time to time with kind word or two (mabe a free lunch on the Thames Terrace as well). I also find it difficult to be unkind to them, bearing in mind who they're working for. I have just received a "pension forecast" which i requested by email two months ago. It was eight pages long, very thoughtfully composed, and each point made out to me in person. Someone took quite a bit of time on it, so no I couldn't be rude to anyone who does that sort of work.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        ANTHONY STEPHENS, ANNE GARNETT. Welcome to our campaign!!
        WHEN YOU SIGN UP, PLEASE SELECT THREE VOTES.
        Your comments are what's needed to get our message across.
        Your VOTES are what's needed to get 38 Degrees to adopt our campaign.
        When you select 3 VOTES, they go on your comments automatically.
        So please do your bit for all of us and VOTE for "Fairness, Justice and Equality". Please ask your friends and relatives to support us too.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        MRS SUSANNA J. Welcome to 38 Degrees and to our campaign against the UK "frozen pension policy". Thank you so much for your votes, we need all that we can get. Please return often and read the comments. Spread the word amongst your friends and relatives about this campaign, and encourage them to vote also (particularly those in UK).
        Thanks again.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        CRUNCHIE60CJB. Thank you for your votes.
        From your comment I believe that you're In the UK, and that you want to emigrate to Australia, but are afraid to do so because of the "frozen pension" issue. Am I right???
        If so please spread the word around to your friends and relatives in UK, and encourage them to vote on our 38 degree campaign too.
        The sooner we get this UK discriminatory policy reversed, the sooner you can join your family in Australia

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        ANN PUCKRIDGE.
        Meg, Jane and myself would like you to get in touch with us.
        We would like to swap email addresses with you before 38 shuts us down.
        I do NOT want you to put your email address on this 38 Degree public forum, so this is what I suggest.

        I run a photoblog called "The Chippbutty" here's the link ....

        http://chippbutty.blogspot.com

        You can Google it if you want to, you will find it.

        When it opens, look at one of my photo groups (called a post).

        Under the bottom photo of any group, you will see the phrase .......
        ....... "0 Comments".
        If you click on this phrase, a window will open that will allow you to write a "comment".

        The comment can be anything, but your Email address would be great :-))

        To send what you have written, copy the wierd security letters into the box "Word Verification".

        For "Choose an Identity" click on the dot "Anonymus".

        Click on "Publish your comment" to send it the comment to me.

        The window will change to a new open form, and on the top you should see the words in green " Your comment has been saved and will be visible after blog owner approval". The "blog owner" is of course me.

        Seeing those words in green is your confirmation that your comment has been sent to me, and to nobody else.

        You can then close the window.

        That "comment" then comes direct to me for "moderation" where I can publish or delete it.

        After making a note of your Email address, I will of course delete the comment.

        I will then email you back, and then you will have my address too.

        This is the method that I used to make first contact with Meg, and she can vouch for my integrity, and the security aspect of the method also.

        I hope to hear from you both before 38 dries up, and we lose all contact with one another completely!

        A note to others who may want to "trade".
        My blog is public, and anyone can comment on a "Post".
        Remember - I decide on what comments to keep or delete, so no time wasters please. None of us have got much of it left!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        ARTHUR McKERRON
        Thank you so much for your votes.
        Please could you tell us what country you are living in?
        Our campaign is worldwide, and it helps us to know how far our voice is carrying. The louder we shout, the further we reach. Thanks.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Ann.
        A couple of points here ... About three weeks ago I posted an assistive comment. My intention was to help unfamiliar newcomers through the 38' sign-up and voting procedure. This was met with a favourable response.

        I also offered to keep this message on page 1 so that newcomers to 38' could see it. This was also welcomed as being helpful.

        Whenever I re-poste the new comment at the top of the page, I delete the old one immediately. To see the opposite, take a look at the Kings Lynn campaign and look for Frances Nolan's "activity" record. I think you know how.

        Onto another point .....
        You remarked ...."Maybe they do not care all that much, because the frozen pension regime does not affect people who are not yet pensioners nor pensioners who live in the UK."

        You meant the 38 team right? ......

        Last weekend, I met a gentleman (a skilled tradesman like myself) who had recently come to Canada from Gloucester UK. He brought his family here four years ago. His age - late fourties give or take a few.
        To someone like myself who has been here over 30 years, it was good to talk to a person "fresh off the boat" to get their impressions of Canada.

        We talked at length, and obviously comparisons were made between the UK and Canada - but I won't go into that, this page isn't long enough.
        I mentioned the "frozen pension" issue, assuming that he knew about it's implications on his family. He did not have a clue what I was talking about, and was very, very grateful for the information I was able to pass on to him. This "not yet pensioner" was deeply affected - believe me!

        I agree that possibly the 38' team does not care much about any "offshore" campaigns. On the other hand, IF one of that team (or their friends and relatives) ever emigrated to a "frozen" country, then the picture would be entirely different. I think they would care very much indeed!

        Such is discrimination, and that is why we should all be united as we fight this Immoral UK pension policy that breeds it.
        .
        This is the best chance we have had to do something constructive since Stasbourg, and probably for quite some time in the future too.
        Let's help it achieve what we're all waiting for - Fairness. Justice and Equality, and if that means copy/pasting of helpful comments to keep them in sight, then so be it!!
        Leave the petty office politics to the ICBP and its associates, they seem to be much better at it, but then they've had more practice!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Andy, I'll second all that you said here. We need a leadership from ICBP that can be seen to be working. I have asked ICBP on two separate "milestone" occasions in this campaign, for emails to be sent to members to congratulate those who have brought it to this stage, and to encourage those who haven't voted to do so. They obviously couldn't do this, because they fired the one guy who could send the ruddy emails!!!!
        Don't forget ICBP emailed me in the first place to become involved.
        The LAST thing we need is insignificant office politics that will interfere with our common aim and objective. But it looks like that is what we've got stuck with. Someone had better fix it, as you say PDQ. We cannot afford (and neither can ICBP etc) to have this stupid squabble in our way!!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        I didn't, but then I elected not to receive emails off them.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Peter with all due respect, that bit about the webmaster being forced to resign from ICBP is simply unbelievable. Are they so shortsighted that they can't see the benefits that this campaign would bring??
        Surely one small indiscretion (sending out emails without permission) doesn't warrant tossing a guy out the window??
        Webmasters don't grow on trees, not at our age anyway, so I strongly suggest ICBP try to get the gifted person back!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Good job Dennis, the more direct and pointed the questions are, the better chance of avoiding the dreaded "Communications Dept".

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Good morning Jane. Please could you post the list of addresses your emailing to, so that we can all chip in? Perhaps if anyone else has other usable addresses together we could compile quite a "hit list ".
        Doesn't ICBP have a current list, or maybe one of the other groups.
        PETER MORRIS, can you please answer this and other earlier questions from Andy???

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        I think we can all agree on one thing now, and that we need more new voters, and when they get here we have to encourage them to stay involved. How??????
        Andy, you're making me very jealous here - I hope you get soaked :-)

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Good morning from Ontario Canada. I seem to have stirred thing a bit with my interpretation of the voting method. As I said to Sairung earlier .... If I'm wrong then I'm wrong, and I'm sorry if I took anyone up the garden path with me as a result. In retrospect I see now that I'M WRONG!!
        That's one of the problems with this site - interpretation - there's too many ways to look at it. I think it's one of the many reasons why 38 Degrees will never get many members out of all the gallant people who have commented here.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        David Sheldon. Thank you so much for your comments and for your votes. They mean so much for everyone who is concerned with this campaign.
        Please could you tell us what country you are voting from? It helps us to have an idea how far our voice is reaching.
        Thanks again.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Andy. If someone hasn't used all of their ten votes during commenting, and DON'T want to comment, but DO wish to add votes to the campaign, then they just sign in and click on the orange button underneath the square showing the total votes. Their "selected" number of votes are then added.
        Such is the strange way 38 operates!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Andy. I just want add my thanks to Meg's for all the work you've been doing on behalf of all of us POP (Pissed Off Pensioners)
        It could be Progressively Obsolete Pissers too, but I prefer the first heading.
        The encouragement and direction that you've given prospective voters has been excellent. Please keep it up!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Dennis and Audrey. I'll second the Wahay. It's a wonderful moment that certainly deservers a congratulatory email from ICBP to all of its affiliate's members.................Peter Morris, surely that's not too much to ask.
        Voters and commenters have put a huge amount of time and effort into this milestone, and I think everyone deserves a big THANK YOU!!
        It looks like Fastsloan pushed us through the 7,000 barrier. Thank you so much for your comment and your 3 votes!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Good point Anne about clicking on a name to see all previous comments by the person that wrote them. I would like to know what "Karma" means too, as my Karma is now 108.
        Anybody?????

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        True Jane, we have paid more than enough. For those (like my wife and I) who have "topped up" their UK state pensions, I believe we have paid plenty. Nobody can argue that we have not contributed. Those who say we haven't paid enough, should try paying as much as we have!
        PS Just got back in the house, sorry if I've missed anything!
        Eight votes to 7,000 ....... Wow!!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Welcome John to our campaign, and thank you for your true comment. You are dead right in what you say.
        Please could you tell us where you live, as our campaign is world wide, and it would be good to know how far we are reaching.
        Thanks once again.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        To Jane and Andy (this is an edited repeat comment) Meg, and myself would like you to get in touch with us.
        We need to swap email addresses before 38 shuts is down.
        I do NOT want you to put your email addresses on this 38 Degree public forum, so this is what I suggest.
        I run a photoblog called "The Chippbutty" here's the link ....
        http://chippbutty.blogspot.com
        You can Google it if you want to, you will find it.
        When it opens, look at one of my photo groups (called a post).
        Under the bottom photo of any group, you will see the phrase .......
        ....... "0 Comments".
        If you click on this phrase, a window will open that will allow you to write a "comment".
        The comment can be anything, but your Email address would be great :-))
        To send what you have written, copy the wierd security letters into the box "Word Verification"
        For "Choose an Identity" click on the dot "Anonymus".
        Click on "Publish your comment" to send it the comment to me.
        The window will change to a new open form, and on the top you should see the words " Your comment has been saved and will be visible after blog owner approval". The blog owner is me.
        You can then close the window.
        That "comment" then comes direct to me for "moderation" where I can publish or delete it.
        After making a note of your Email address, I will of course delete the comment.
        I will then email you back, and then you will have my address too..
        This is the method that I used to make first contact with Meg, and she can vouch for my integrity, and the security aspect of the method also.
        I hope to hear from you both before 38 dries up!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        For those who don't know.
        If you want to remove a comment from the website, then you can do it by clicking the blue "delete" button, which is at the bottom of your "posted" comment.
        If you want the site to check for new comments, then click on the "Refresh" button at the top of your screen. It's two green arrows, one going up, the other, down. It's very handy.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Welcome Gerald to our campaign, and thanks for your comment and your votes. Please could you also tell us where you live? This wiil help us know what countries we're reaching.
        As Andy said "it would be useful in this world wide campaign to know your country of residence".
        Thanks again.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        To Jane Davis. Andy has already kindly agreed to do this. Gorse Maggie aka Meg, and myself would like you to get in touch with us.
        I do not want you to put your email addresses on this public forum, so here is what I propose.
        I run a photoblog called "The Chippbutty" here's the link ....
        http://chippbutty.blogspot.com You can Google it if you want to.
        When it opens, look at one of my photo groups (posts).
        You can put a comment on any one of my posts by clicking on the word "0 Comments" under the bottom photo of the group.
        A new window will open, in which you can type whatever you want, but your Email address would be great :-))
        You will have to copy some security letters, and then click on "Publish your comment" to complete the procedure.
        The window will change to a new open form, and on the top you should see the words " Your comment has been saved and will be visible after blog owner approval". The blog owner is me.
        You can then close the window.
        That "comment" then comes direct to me for "moderation" where I can publish or delete it.
        After making a note of your Email address, I will of course delete the comment.
        I will then email you back, and then you will have my address too..
        This is the method that I used to make first contact with Meg, and she can vouch for my integrity, and the security aspect of the method also.
        I hope to hear from you both before 38 dries up!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        PLEASE, WHEN YOU SIGN UP, SELECT 3 VOTES!!
        Your comments are what's needed to get our message across.
        Your VOTES are what's needed to get 38 degrees to adopt our campaign.
        When you select 3 VOTES, they go on your old and new comments automatically. This site only counts 10 votes for you, no matter how many comments you make.
        If it helps anyone, I'll keep this post "in view" on Page 1.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Andy, as far as I know, if you've voted on a 38 degree campaign that's on their HOME PAGE, eg NHS, then you are a member. I'm a bit busy too - more later.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        WHEN YOU SIGN UP, PLEASE SELECT 3 VOTES!!
        Your comments are what's needed to get our message across.
        Your VOTES are what's needed to get 38 degrees to adopt our campaign.
        When you select 3 VOTES, they go on your old and new comments automatically. This site only counts 10 votes for one person, no matter how many comments he or she has made.
        If it helps anyone, I'll keep this post "in view" on Page 1.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        OMG Meg - I thought you'd gotten lost in your garden or something like that!!
        As far as POP is concerned - if you like it, buy it - and I've bought it.
        I'll put the voting info back up for our welcome new arrival - Leslie - as soon as I've taken the dog out.

        PS. I've still got all my thumbs - ta for asking :-)

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        I believe we're waiting to see whether 38 degrees will "adopt" (their language) our campaign or not.

        MOST OF US DO NOT KNOW HOW THIS PROCEDURE WORKS.

        Could someone who knows (preferably from 38 degrees) please shed some light on this, and educate some pissed off pensioners???

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Hi Meg, I'm sleepwalking here, but .....
        Voting on a campaign like NHS (on their home page) makes you a "member", which then entitles you to support on any future campaign you want 38 degrees to adopt.
        This explains why some (home page) campaigns achieved so few votes when they were in the "suggested" stage, but were "adopted" anyway.
        Voting on "suggested" campaigns - as ours is at the moment - does not make you a member at all.
        That's how I see it .......
        James, if I'm wrong, correct me here.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Thank you Dai Bach for your thanks :-) BTW I've just Skyped you! But you are right about needing to attract new blood. The "interchange of ideas" is being rotated by a group of people that is growing steadily but too slowly.
        What can we do, apart from asking friends and relatives to join in, and to enlarge this circle? Any ideas anyone??

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        UK politicians take note. The seniors who are becoming "pensioners" now are much better educated; more up to date with current technology; better informed, and know where to get new information from. They will therefore be much more capable of carrying the fight to the opposite corner, ie you.
        As Jane said earlier, the problem is not going to go away with the inevitable sad passing of some of the older pensioners. The younger element will take up the baton for sure, and run much faster because of their greater abilities.
        By the way Meg, go find us some wings :-))

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Meg. Your suggestions are words that really needed to be spoken. I think we have all thought along those lines at one point or another, but have not put the words into print as you have.
        The more ideas that are floated and decided upon, the more headway we can make, and the more people we can bring on board. It's so much better when everyone can see in what direction we are going. We must keep going forward - it's the only way!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Jane. Today I'm doing my taxes on the computer, while keeping an eye on 38'. "A man's work is never done" I believe they call it multi-tasking now ;-) Seriously, if we weren't in this plight, then many of us wouldn't have to be looking at where the next dollar or two is coming from!
        I've deleted the 38' copy/paste repost method, so If anyone want's it back, Let me know.
        Jane, I'm glad you had a giggle from it. Got to feed my dog now, thanks for the reminder :-))

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        @Peter Morris. Peter, obviously you're looking at what's going on. It's your name under the campaign text, so I imagined you would be.
        Thank you for getting this movement going on 38 degrees, and thus allowing everyone to have their input. I must say, it's very much appreciated.
        Once again. Thank you very much for initiating it.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        The one thing we can all thank 38 degrees for, is the opportunity to put voice to our feelings, and let off some steam. This is the format the ICBP (I like POP better) should take note of. Not only should they look at what's being said, but also the way in which our messages are being displayed.
        Why can't we have a forum similar to this on the ICBP site, where we can air our views, and make suggestions? A method where we can "talk" to one another, and develop definite ideas from everyone's input. There may even be be the possiblity of expanding the membership beyond the 38, 000 towards the 500,000 that we know are out there somewhere. Y/N ????? POP???? YYY!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        To SarzW. You're forgetting that we have allready PAID into the UK's economy, a lot of people in Britain at the moment have YET to pay anything!!!
        I wish I could go on to educate you, but my grandaughter is on my lap, and I'm being told to go to "Mickey Mouse Clubhouse".
        Maybe someone else can fill you in on the FACTS of why we're so angry.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        To Andy Robertson-Fox. Anne, whose story below I copied out of the Evening Standard also hails from Thailand (I believe that's where you are retired now). I don't know how big the Brit community is there, or if there's a chance you might know of her. From what I read, she sounds like she could do with some serious advice. If I've got my nose stuck out too far, let me know and I'll delete the posts.
        PS Congrats on your excellent comments.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Don't want to hog the board, but you have to read this. I found it on the UK Evening Standard site. It's Anne's story .......

        I worked hard as a special needs teacher all my life as well as having to be an UNPAID carer for my mother . I had a major op ( ooops I cost the health service some money , sorry about that ! ) I had just sold my home when I found I was seriously ill and a consequence was I could then not get a further mortgage . Consequently I was put in the position of having to rent . I WAS FORCED OUT OF THE UK AS I COULD NO LONGER AFFORD TO LIVE THERE ! My pensions combined were about £10 a month more than the set level for getting assistance . CAB etc , no one could help . so don't anyone dare begrudge me the couple of years that I got the fuel allowance living in Crete near friends for a couple of years . I now have no option but be a 67 year old nomad . I have no family to help me and the b...... government or health service who mis-diagnosed my condition for at least 15 years failed me . I now live in Phuket where at least people are friendly and smile . I do not get the fuel allowance here but my pension is frozen .
        I begrudge the people who came into my beloved country and stole my hard earned money and taxes . Try moving to another country where you have actually very few options as YOUR PENSION IS NOT ENOUGH to BE ALLOWED TO LIVE THERE !
        If I could come back , I couldn't get free national health treatment , or get my DLA back etc . Perhaps if the Thais up their requirements I will be able to claim asylum and get a mansion etc ! For those that get the fuel allowance - Good on ya

        - Ann, Rawai Phuket Thailand, 20/02/2010 04:42

        Ann. A long shot, but if you happen to read this, try to get in touch with the International Consortium of British Pensioners, There is a branch in Thailand, (British Pensioners in Thailand) who can give you up to date advice.
        I know it's away from the thread a bit, but she's "frozen", she's one of us - right? Can anyone in Thailand help out??

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        The "Times" use the Populus UK research group. In Feb 2010 they found that 42% of Brits - AS A WHOLE - want out of UK. A Nat West survey in UK found that 1 of 3 potential homeowners want to retire abroad. The same survey found that 72% of 30 to 50 year olds also want to retire abroad. This is a damning indictment of Britain.
        The frozen pension policy is dictating where they should go. Grandparents want to be with their grandchildren. If the kids land is "frozen", chances are they won't see them at all.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        To Simon Nicolson. From your comment, I'm guessing that you're one of the 60% of Brits who want to retire out "Dear Old Blighty" (recent study done in UK). Do yourself a favour and pass our message, and this site, on to your friends. Then by the time you come to retire in any one of a list of over 150 countries, from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe (no joke) you'll have your full indexed pension, and so will we!!
        PS. Where you at??

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        What do you think about including your country of residence in your comment???
        Maybe then we'd know (and be encouraged by) how wide our net is spreading.
        I was born in Swansea, Wales, emigrated in 1980, and now retired in Burlington, Ontario. Canada.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        To Marilyn Christensen. I think you'd have to set up a seperate email account with whatever email server you use. I'm not a computer geek so I wouldn't know for sure. Maybe a true "geek" could help out here.

        What do you think about including our country of residence in your comment. Maybe then we'd know (and be encouraged by) how wide our net is spreading. Retired in Ontario. Canada.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        The list of frozen/un-frozen countries I refered to earlier is on the ICBP website. You can reach it from the CABP site, but this is easier.....
        http://www.pension-parity-uk.com/pension-rights.htm#Are%20YOU%20frozen%20or%20are%20you%20not
        As a footnote, can you include your country of residence on your comment, so everyone can see where you're hailing from. I'm retired in Burlington. Canada. Thanks Andy for your link too. They all help.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        With referance to a Parliamentary Select Committee report on this frozen pension issue, in which the conclusion states; "Surely no-one would have deliberately designed a policy of paying pensions to people living abroad intending to end up in the position we are at today... A simple change in the British law could enable up-ratings to be paid in all or any overseas country provided the political will was there to do so." SAY NO MORE!!
        Copied. Thanks & credit to "PossieJim"

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        To Dai Bach. Guess who?? Go to the Canadian Alliance of British Pensioners website for the full list of all frozen and unfrozen countries. You might have to search a bit. I'll put a link to it on my next post.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Ladies and gentlemen, for those who haven't - PLEASE SIGN UP & VOTE.

        Your comments are what's needed to get our message across.

        Your VOTES are what's needed to get 38 degrees to adopt our campaign.
        Go to the 38 Degree Home page, and look at the NHS petition to see what I mean. Wouldn't you like our campaign there??

        SO PLEASE SIGN UP and select 3 VOTES. They then go on automatically.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe if a Canadian retires to the UK, that increases to 'Canada Pension' will also be paid to their pensioners in UK.
        The Canadian government realize that a UK expat's pensions are frozen in Canada, but does not freeze the Canuk's pension in UK in return.
        The standard for justice, decency and fairness was set by Britain.
        That obviously is no longer is the case. It is sad and shameful.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        To Jane Davies. Thanks Jane for sharing the link to Duncan Smith.
        As you say, if we all send emails to him, perhaps then he will take some notice of what we're saying, and what we're feeling.
        We've waited long enough for justice and fair treatment.
        We've waited too long for equality. The UK should pay us what's long overdue, and what we're owed, and maybe then we'll leave them alone

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        This is geographical discrimination - pure and simple.
        It's like the UK pension being paid in England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland, but not in the Isle of Man. How the UK can justify this unbelievably unfair policy is beyond belief. A UK study has now found that Britain would financially benefit from 'unfreezing' our 'frozen' pensions. The UK goverment should grasp at this information, and use it to reverse this disgraceful policy. Economics should be taught to all politicians, but particularly British ones!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Foks, in case you haven't - PLEASE SIGN UP & VOTE.

        Your comments are what we need to get our message across. You can comment as often as you want. This is my 55th, and still going on!

        The VOTES are what we need to get 38 degrees to adopt our campaign.
        Go to the 38 Degree Home page, and look at the NHS petition to see what I mean. We could be like that if we work at it a bit!!

        SIGN UP and select 3 VOTES, then they will go on automatically.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        The British government have saved millions and milions of pounds over the years that this discriminating policy has been in force,
        The fact is that they could have saved MORE if the policy had NOT been in place. When are they going to understand simple economics? You don't have to pay a pensioner health care; free travel; housing costs; heating costs; xmas bonus etc when they're not in the country. So encourage them to leave the UK by unfreezing the pensions!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        There are over half a million "frozen" expat UK pensioners worldwide. The ICBP is a voluntary body doing its utmost to address and correct the 'frozen pension" issue. It's made up of British Pensioners groups from Australia, Canada, South Africa and Thailand, but accepts members from any country. So far 2390 comments have been posted here, that leaves about 497,610 comments to go. That's a lot of "clout". We need that clout here, in the comment box, and in the voting numbers. So let's get the word out!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Hey guys, for those who haven't - PLEASE SIGN UP & VOTE.

        The comments are what we need to get our message across.

        The VOTES are what we need to get 38 degrees to adopt our campaign.
        Go to the 38 Degree Home page, and look at the NHS petition to see what I mean. We could be like that if we work at it!!

        SIGN UP and select 3 VOTES. They then go on automatically.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        James Nelson, check your mail.
        So they've done it again to us, eh? No vote. No debate. Just a few lines on a piece of paper, and we're frozen again for another year.
        Well not if I have anything to do with it!!
        Keep your great comments coming and VOTE. Ask all your friends - Brit or not - pensioner or not - to help you, and tell them why.
        UK Parliament has seen fit to ignore us again. Let's make them take notice.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        32 DESPICABLE WORDS - THAT'S ALL IT TOOK.
        " Regulation 5 of the Social Security Benefit (Persons Abroad) Regulations 1975(7) (application of disqualification in respect of up-rating of benefit) shall apply to any additional benefit payable by virtue of the Up-rating Order. "
        These are the words that will subject over half million of us to another year of frozen pensions. They are part of Statutory Instrument 2011 No. 830, and it comes into force on April 11. Now you know what you are fighting!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Fixed earlier typo. Second posting .....
        A lot of people eem to think that now a Conservative/Lib Dem government now has power, all will be well, and our problem will soon be fixed.
        We've had this problem since 1974. How many Tory Parliaments has UK had since then? How many Parliaments of every party have ignored us?
        WE HAVE BEEN DISMISSED LIKE SO MUCH GARBAGE.
        You know the old saying OUT OF SIGHT, OUT OF MIND.
        Let's get their mind's back on us! We have to demand now. The time for Please has long gone!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Hey guys, those who haven't - SIGN UP & VOTE.

        The comments are what we need to get our message across.

        The VOTES are what we need to get 38 degrees to adopt our campaign.
        Go to the 38 Degree Home page, and look at the NHS petition to see what I mean.

        SIGN UP and select 3 VOTES. They then go on automatically.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        In 1974 a decision was made the then Labour government to freeze the pensions of CERTAIN expat UK pensioners.
        This very discriminatory policy has been "rubber stamped" by ALL successive Parliaments ever since, regardless of party.
        This is being done without a Commons debate or vote.
        Call this democracy? I don't think so!!
        UK is the ONLY one of 34 OECD member countries that deny full pension portability. How is this allowed to carry on? Why is it allowed to carry on??

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        James Nelson. Thanks for the compliment.
        I try to stick to the facts when writing, there's no point in stating anything false or misleading. To do that would be lowering myself to the level of a UK politician!
        Please excuse my ignorance, but what is a tpg address?? Your talking to a nerd here!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        We can all thank Harold Wilson when was PM for this "tempoary" measure of freezing pensions. It was part of a package to prevent capital leaving the country. I think the maximum you could take out of UK was 50 quid!
        Successive governments have kept the "frozen" pension part going ever since - without debate or vote!!
        Discriminatory, fraudulent, unfair and unjust. Shame on you UK.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        The combination of a frozen pension plus a lousy rate of exchange, (pound/canadian dollar) is making retirement more and more expensive. It's already to the point that many I know are seriously thinking of returning to the UK, so that they can receive their FULL pension, and all the other benefits that go with it - health care - heating allowance - xmas bonus - free rail and bus travel etc. Does the UK really want this to happen, or would it be cheaper for them to unfreeze our pensions, and let us stay where we are?

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Folks, please SIGN UP and select 3 VOTES!!

        The amount of VOTES count towards this campaign being adopted by the 38 degrees website - like the NHS one, (go to 38 degree Home page)

        So do your bit for US and VOTE.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Totally amazing that the UK has seen fit to ignore their own democratic process and the rights of so many.
        That Parliament is able year after year to slip this "freeze-their-pensions" clause into legislation without debate or vote speaks for itself.
        This is not only undemocratic, it's unjust and unfair.
        It's penalizing pensioners who have paid in FULLY, and then discriminating against them depending on where they live.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        This is discrimination because of where you live - pure and simple.
        It's like the UK pension being paid in England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland, but not in the Isle of Man or the Isle of Skye.
        How the UK can justify this discriminatory policy is beyond belief.
        It's now been found by a UK study that Britain would financially benefit from 'thawing' our 'frozen' pensions. The politicians should grasp at this piece of information, and use it to reverse this disgraceful policy.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        What with the "frozen" pension, and the Pound dropping against the Canadian dollar, we expat UK pensioners are between a rock and a hard place!!
        Our income is dropping week by week, not year by year. Some of us have a small Canadian pension, which is index linked - but then the yearly raise is proportionately smaller.
        If you don't have a Canadian or private pension - hard luck, because you won't get by on the UK un-indexed one.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Hey guys, those who haven't - SIGN UP & VOTE.

        The comments are what we need to get our message across.

        The VOTES are what we need to get 38 degrees to take us on.

        SIGN UP and select 3 VOTES. They then go on automatically.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Britain, read what is being written in this campaign about you.
        You could have been fair to the people who fought wars for you, but instead you swept their loyalty under the carpet, just like so much rubbish.
        You've had many a chance to right this disgraceful wrong, but you've chosen to continue with the discrimination and injustice.
        Pay these pensioners what they're owed, and what they've paid for.
        You have another chance here to make amends, do yourself a favour and take it. We will never, ever give up!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        PLEASE USE YOUR VOTES WHEN POSTING A COMMENT.

        Commenting lets everyone know how deeply we feel.

        VOTING tells 38 degrees how many of us feel the same way.

        If you haven't done so - SIGN UP and select 3 votes.

        Then, every time you visit and sign in, the 3 votes will go on all your comments automatically.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        WE can all thank Harold Wilson when was PM for this "tempoary" measure of freezing pensions. It was part of a package to prevent capital leaving the country. I think the max you could take out of UK was 50 quid!
        Successive governments have kept the "frozen" pension part going ever since!!
        Deplorable, fraudulent and unjust.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Folks - you have to VOTE to be counted. Your comments are needed, but your VOTES are needed more!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        To add insult to injury, my wife and I contributed to "top up" our UK pensions from Canada. The idea being to increase our overall pensions and compensate for the "freeze". This was done with Canadian after-tax income & paid before we retired.
        We can't claim a Canadian tax deduction on the UK contribution (nearly $10,000.00).
        Then, of course, we have to pay Canadian tax on the UK frozen pension when we get it!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        WE'RE NUMBER ONE on the 38 degree campaign list at the moment, because the VOTES put us there!!

        So if you haven't, sign up and apply your 3 votes to each comment!

        If you can't see an orange box alongside your comment, then you haven't voted.

        Once signed up, you don't need to comment to vote, just click on the white Vote box (top left under vote total) and your alloted votes will be applied.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Discrimination; the lack of justice; deception; political trickery and downright robbery are the things you expect from the likes of Libya etc.
        The UK is aligning itself with countries like that by continuing this unbelievable policy. No theft or fraud is legal, no matter how many laws are passed in the UK saying the opposite.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Discriminating. Unjust. Unfair. Fraudulent. Thieving. Ungrateful.
        Penalising. I could probably think of a few more, but all the names belong to Britain. Correct this terrible injustice UK, and reverse the dreadful harm you've been doing to people who've been loyal to you.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        I live in Canada, 40 minutes drive from Niagara Falls, where my wife and I collect a "frozen" pension (even in summer). If we drove south for 45 minutes, we'd be in the USA, and our pension would be a lot "warmer".
        Mr Cameron and Mr Clegg - check out this site, and see the things British pensioners are saying about the UK. I used to be a proud Brit - not any more!
        I'll just say I'm a proud Welsh/Canadian instead.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        PLEASE GUYS, VOTE WHILE YOU HAVE THIS OPPORTUNITY.

        Your comment on its own doesn't count as a vote.

        So please register, sign in and then you can vote without a comment if you want to.

        Keep the comments coming as well, then they know how serious we are!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        My wifeand I emigrated to Canada in 1980 with our three kids. Both our pensioms are now frozen. We don't want to be a burden on them when we grow older.
        We have paid as much as anyone in the UK for our pensions, so why aren't we receiving the same???? It is geographical discrimination - pure and simple. Economics doesn't cut it anymore - since a UK study found out that they'd BENEFIT financially by unfreezing our pensions!!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Hopefully anyone seeing these comments who hasn't joined a branch of the ICBP will now want to. Check their website for how to. UK politicians have got away with this fraud for too long. We want equality - we've paid for it!!!!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Please tell all your expat buddies about this campaign and get them on it. It's vital that we get as many votes as possible.
        There are over half a million of us so we can shout pretty loud when we need to.
        Now is the time when we need to shout. Let's be heard - OK???
        Goodnight all, it's been a pleasure.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Folks - as Simon says - VOTE when you visit. A comment is not a vote!!
        If you don't see an orange box with a number in it alongside your comment, then you haven't voted.
        You can still register, sign in and apply your votes to your old comments.
        Or you can just click on the WHITE VOTE BOX at the left side under the vote total - but you must register first to do this,
        I'm an antique too, so if I can do it - so can you!!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        I believe it was Harold Wilson of "pound in your pocket" fame, who introduced this TEMPORARY measure, to curb the amount of capital leaving the UK at that time. If I'm wrong, could someone correct me?
        This "temporary" measure is now not even debated in Parliament, but added as an afterthought into the already approved legislation. Again, if I'm wrong .....

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Hilary, sign out. Revisit and try again.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Left UK in 1980. Canadian citizen in 1986. Retired in Canada last year. Bought back my missed years from UK (cost me 8 grand, but worth it). UK pension now of course frozen. Totally reliant on smaller Canadian pension for tiny increases to pay inflated costs.
        Fighting like a bulldog to get some justice from a thieving UK government.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        VOTE with every VISIT!! This is going to take a huge effort but we can do it!! If we want to attract the UK politician's attention, we have to do it with numbers - and that means VOTES!!
        So please - REGISTER - SIGN IN and VOTE with every VISIT!!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        DON'T FORGET TO VOTE. They count!! The comments are a wonderful way of letting the world know what we feel, but the VOTES are the way they feel our strength.
        If 38 dgrees takes our campaign on as an "accepted" idea, it's going to be our best shot since Strasbourg.
        We can't afford to lose here, so comment with your heart, but VOTE with your head!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        To correct what may be a common misconception, the Commonwealth countries are not the only ones affected by the "frozen pension"policy. There are 156 countries affected in total, with over half a million pensioners suffering.
        On the other hand there are a similar number of pensioners living outside the UK in countries where they not only get the yearly increases, but heating allowance etc too!!!
        I have yet to see a comment of support from a pensioner in an "unfrozen" country, eg USA - have you??

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        1% of the UK state pension budget - that's all it'll take to fix this, Think about it - 1%. It will not come out of the general taxation revenue, but out of a "special fund" that's been accumulating for years (ever since this discriminatory policy was introduced).
        Even that 1% cannot be used as an argument now, as a UK study has found that Britain will financially BENEFIT from "unfreezing" our pensions.
        So - Mr Cameron and Mr Clegg - how about it?????

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Well done the ICBP for getting the word out about the 38 degree forum.
        I only hope that British politicians are also reading the comments here.
        This has been the most prolific display of our opinions ever!!
        Keep the VOTES and comments coming, and tell all your friends about this. Get them to VOTE too, and we'll get our pensions fixed yet!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Now that Prince William is in Australia for a visit, would it be possible for our friends there to let him know about the discrimination his Mum's government is dishing out??
        He is there on a humanitarian vist - surely our cause fits that bill?
        Perhaps the BAPA can "earole" him on behalf of the over half a million expat pensioners being denied their true pension by fraudulent politicians.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        VISIT & VOTE. If you don't get a numbered orange box show up under our total vote, then you haven't voted. To vote you have to register, which is simple. Every visit after that it's just click the white square VOTE box, and your vote goes on straight away.
        Hey, I'm an antique too, so if I can do it - I'm damn sure you can!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        It's been proved that the UK will BENEFIT financially by completely unfreezing pensions!! Following an "unfreeze" pensioners would leave the UK to join their already emigrated families. This would free up the cash and housing that they would have otherwise had. By the way, the study that discovered this was done in the UK by a UK company!!
        For details on this, go to The Telegraph Offshore Finance blog and read John Markam. Click here for the link ....
        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/offshorefinance/8382837/Why-freezing-expat-pensions-makes-no-sense.html

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Please guys, use your VOTES!!
        Register or sign in, and use your 3 votes every time you visit. This campaign is going to help us.
        Comments are great, and let everyone know how we feel, but votes are better.
        We're number one at the moment - let's keep it that way!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Having checked out other campaigns particularly the Kings Lyn incinerator one, I notice the same people are posting many, many times, whereas the vast majority of people commenting on our campaign are voting just the once. One Kings Lyn voter - 56 posts, his last 18 posts being copy/pastes. Another voter - 46 posts. Yet another 36 posts, and so it goes on. Each post is given 3 votes, so you do the math. A large number of posts are also being used as a bulletin board. I suppose all this is within the 38 degree rules, but it takes away the fairness of the competition for the number one slot. Our campaign is worldwide, yet we have 3,522 votes at the moment. The Kings Lyn campaign has 3,289 votes, and it covers, well Kings Lyn. I know they are as passionate about their campaign as we are about ours, but come on, if we all copy/paste a hundred times - where does it end? This sad comment is also being sent to the 38 degree website in the hope that something can be done or rules can be changed

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        For those who are commenting on this site and want to know more, or maybe DO more, then - if you're not a member - join the International Consortium of British Pensioners. There isn't a group more dedicated to reverse this huge discrimination and injustice than them. Here's the link to find out more .... http://www.pension-parity-uk.com/
        This organisation of volunteers covers all the "frozen" countries, so if you're affected by the freeze - warm up and join in!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        If the article in the UK Sunday Telegraph is the one in the Offshore Finance section by John Markham, then here's the link to it ....

        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/offshorefinance/8382837/Why-freezing-expat-pensions-makes-no-sense.html

        If it's not, could someone please post it so we can all read it.
        You should read the one by John Marham - because it's logic is true, and it points the finger of blame where it should point - straight at UK politicians.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        To approve pension indexing across the board would cost the UK 0.1% on top of it's annual pension budget. This cost is minimal, and would in any case disappear when (as studies show) pensioners would leave to join families in the 'frozen' countries, and would no longer claim health-care etc from the UK. Why then the hold up? Is it just bloody-mindedless?

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Don't give up just yet Celia Davids, because we have a lot going for us. Through 38 degrees the British public are learning just how badly they are treating their pensioners. They are learning also how their government is cheating us; discriminating against us; and defrauding us. The truth on how the UK gov't is acting is becoming exposed to the world, and the pressure is growing for them to correct this terrible injustice. Cameron and Clegg, the writing is on the wall - read it!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Re previous post. If you want to read a summary of the Matrix Report, go here ..... http://www.britishpensions.com/Matrix%20Report.html

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Re Lord Hutton. If the UK cannot afford the public sector pensions, then they should unfreeze pensions and collect a financial BENEFIT! A 2010 study by UK think tank, Matrix Evidence, shows that UK would save 33 billion pounds over 15 years by "unfreezing" pensions! This cash would come from NOT having to pay "non-pension-benefits" to seniors who want to leave the country and retire abroad in "frozen" countries. Many would love to leave UK but cannot afford to! So, pay up UK, and then collect!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Anyone reading these comments cannot fail to be moved by the depth of feeling shown here. The UK govt must realise that this problem will never go away unless they fix it. Cameron and Clegg should know that the longer they keep freezing our pensions, the worse it's going to get. The UK government's actions are a disgrace to the word "fair". Pay up UK, enough is enough!!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Discriminatory. Unjust. Unfair. Penny- pinching. Blind. Without compassion. Shameful. Cheap. Fraudulent. Tight. Uncaring. Ungrateful. Deceitful.
        I'm sure you get my drift.

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        I don't know if anyone else has noticed but this campaign has lost its first place position. Please - those who support it - sign in and vote!! You may be able to sign in and backtrack to vote on your old comments, it's worth a shot. Our cause is too important to be lost by not doing this simple thing.
        We lost out in Strasbourg - let's not lose out here!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        DON'T FORGET TO SIGN IN - OR YOU CAN'T VOTE!!
        It's hard to see so many people commenting here. It makes you realize how many are affected by this discriminatory policy. If you comment, please sign in and vote. It's counted! If everyone affected voted here, we'd nearly top the recent (and very successful) 'forestry' campaign!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        DON'T FORGET TO SIGN IN - OR YOU CAN'T VOTE!!
        It's hard to see so many people commenting here. It makes you realize how many are affected by this discriminatory policy. If you comment, please sign in and vote. It's counted! If everyone affected voted here, we'd nearly top the recent (and very successful) 'forestry' campaign!!

        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        Maybe my wife and I should return to the UK and claim all the benefits that are not available to us after retirement in Canada! Would it be more economical for the UK government then?? Freezing our pensions is blatant discrimination - whatever the Strazbourg court says!! We have PAID into the UK pension scheme as much as anyone else, so let us RECEIVE the same as everyone else!!!!

        ChippyChippy supported this idea  · 
        ChippyChippy commented  · 

        My wife and I immigrated to Canada in 1980 with our three children. I retired when I reached 65 last year, so my pension from the UK is frozen at the rate I received when I retired. My wife is in the same boat.

        During the time we worked in the UK, we contributed the maximum to the tax and pension systems. We both worked from 15 years of age until the time we immigrated over twenty years later.

        In Canada, we have paid the maximum allowed into the Canada Pension Plan. In addition, we have voluntarily contributed to the UK Pension Service, for the years we missed since leaving the UK. So for some to say that we have not paid into the UK pension system is nonsense.

        Because of our relatively short working life in Britain, we don't get a full UK pension. The same goes for Canada, so we do we get a full Canadian pension. The two together will not total a full UK State Pension.

        The best option for us therefore, was to buy the pensionable years we missed from the UK Pension Service. This however has to done with Canadian income that has already been taxed. I could also not claim Canadian tax relief on the payments to the UK Pension Service. If I had contributed to a political party instead, I could have claimed tax relief!!!!

        Just to rub the salt in a bit, the UK pension payments that I receive are taxable here in Canada. This does not include the variation (call it a devaluation) in the value of the pound to the Canadian dollar.

        By the way, the Canada Pension Plan, when paid to recipients in the UK, is NOT frozen, but index linked to Canadian increases every year. Plus, because of the rise of the Canadian dollar to the UK pound, they get a bonus that way too.

        Am I upset - you bet I'm upset - wouldn't you be??

        Current figures show that the UK can benefit financially from the 'thawing' of our pensions, by enabling those seniors who want to leave the UK to join their sons or daughters the freedom to do so. That freedom would be an index linked pension paid anywhere in the world!!

        The public in the UK need to be told the truth, and not just what suits the government of the day. I believe the UK government is continuing with this unfair, unjust and discriminatory policy, because they think they would be even more unpopular if they decided to "thaw" the frozen pensions. They fear losing votes from the British people that cannot, or do not want to understand the dilemma that some ezpat pensioners are in.

        The UK government's efforts to balance their books should include educating the British public on the long term capital benefits of unfreezing the frozen pensions of those expats.

        If they want, let them blame their own dilemma on previous legislations, which is true, but that allows no excuse for it to continue. Let them show the world that they can right a wrong, that they can be just, and that they can sometimes be fair.

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              ChippyChippy commented  · 

              Robin, check what other countries these payments are made to, besides the UK, and plug that loophole. You'll be surprised.
              Also did you know that about 25 million pounds is given to the families of deceased claimants??
              Link ... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8090105/Up-to-25m-in-Winter-Fuel-Payments-given-to-dead-pensioners-families.html
              I recently read a comment on a Telegraph blog that the writer (from Greece) buys champagne with it.

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