I suggest a campaign about ...

HS2 - High Speed Rail Link. We dont need to spend £160m per mile

Costing over £160m per mile, the proposed HS2 High Speed Rail Link will not only help further bankrupt our country but will slash and scar our countryside, leaving a permanent reminder to our children of politics gone mad and a dynasty of greed of gargantuan proportions.

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    Joanne BarnesJoanne Barnes shared this idea  ·   ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

    1068 comments

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      • TomTom commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        I think you are drifting off topic here. I expect there are some wealthy people who are impacted but fundamentally this is an environmental campaign to stop another scar being slashed across our countryside. I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

      • ChrisChris commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        StopHS2 for example is a Ltd company. Why would it be a Ltd company if it wasn't financed, with reports of donation collections adding up to £90k.

        I believe that people living along the route have right to protest and they should be well compensated for any blight, the extent of which is often greatly overblown. But some of these “grass routes” campaigns are being so blatantly misleading it is untrue, leaving the public feeling like they don’t what to believe. You can reach a lot of people when your financed and motivated.

      • TomTom commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        I'll take it from your answer then that you don't live anywhere near the HS2 link. HS2 is well documented and the facts are there for all to see and digest using their own intelligence. I don't believe the protesters are well financed; indeed many of them are rural families with little income and are trying to hang on to what they have. Our countryside is our heritage. Where does this stop? Convenience cannot come at the price of our environment. Its that simple.

      • ChrisChris commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Oh course it is easy for me, but then again the project is of nation importance. What I don’t want to see if highly motivated, well financed, and outspoken protesters having the monopoly on HS2 knowledge and misleading the public for their own ends. There is more than one side to HS2 despite what the protest leaders may think.

        John posting a message 6 times doesn’t make it fact.
        http://www.hs2.org.uk/assets/x/77048

      • TomTom commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Chris, I bet my money that you don't live in any area affected. It is easy to sit on the sidelines from an unaffected area and say its all fair.

      • JohnJohn commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Hs2 is indeed up to 25m wide TRACL BED WIDTH. What about the 25m either side of low vegitation area and the security fence....check your facts!

      • ChrisChris commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        “cheap alternatives” are a fallacy I’m sorry to say. 1 single part of the alternatives to HS2 would cost £3.6bn for which you get a handful of new junctions on the WCML. The next step costing £12bn and the full alternative to HS2 costing £20bn. And this is the money it would cost to ease overcrowding on the WCML alone. The government has already earmarked money for large rail improvement packages all around the UK, it’s misleading to say HS2 is sucking money from other developments. This whole subject of “upgrading” is not as simple as is made out.
        To find out more please check out this article. http://yestohs2.blogspot.com/2011/01/alternatives-to-hs2-in-depth-look.html

      • sarah raffetysarah raffety commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        I agree that this is a complete waste of tax payers money when there are cheaper alternatives to give the desired increase in passenger capacity. Those who will benefit are the construction companies who are hard pressed to find work in the private sector. Just think what a fabulous railway network we could have if Gov spent the same amount of money, £33 billion, on improvements across the WHOLE country not just London - Birmingham

      • ChrisChris commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        The last WCML modernisation cost £10bn and took 10 years. I would say £17bn for an instant up %100 capacity increase coupled with faster journey times is much better value for money. The WCML the UKs busiest line is overcrowded it would take up £20bn to produce the same results as HS2 without the journey time savings.

      • kay and bill whitnellkay and bill whitnell commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        This project is sheer folly.Money would be better spent upgrading existing lines and giving rail users a better deal for their money.This would certainly be a fraction of the cost of the proposed HS2.

      • JohnJohn commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Hs2 is indeed up to 25m wide TRACL BED WIDTH. What about the 25m either side of low vegitation area and the security fence....check your facts!

      • JohnJohn commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Hs2 is indeed up to 25m wide TRACL BED WIDTH. What about the 25m either side of low vegitation area and the security fence....check your facts!

      • ChrisChris commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        I have checked my facts. There are no set plans for the area outside the 22m line width, which actually includes not only the track bed, but cable ducts, a path, an access road and fencing. There are no set guidelines for a no vegetation zone or indeed a low vegetation zone, especially one that is 25m either side.

      • JohnJohn commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Hs2 is indeed up to 25m wide TRACk BED WIDTH. What about the 25m either side of low vegitation area and the security fence....check your facts!

      • JohnJohn commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Hs2 is indeed up to 25m wide TRACk BED WIDTH. What about the 25m either side of low vegitation area and the security fence....check your facts!

      • ChrisChris commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        "It is not a railway line, it is a rail superhighway with a land take TWICE the width of a motorway", This is the sort of misleading emotive language that is used to scare the public. A motorway with 3 lanes in either direction is 36m wide, HS2 fence to fence will be 22m. If each ran through a cutting they would both be have the equal cutting width applied so to say that HS2 is wider than a motorway is misleading to the extreme. It’s a single two line railway not some apocalyptic “concrete bomb” and to try and make it out to be so is absurd.

        HS2 Ltd have looked at many route options, they didn’t just point at a map and say build it there. The route is the best route out of many looked into and out of half a dozen that were taken to the next stage of planning.

        HS2 is a crucial national infrastructure project that is both green and economically vital, despite what some localist protesters would like people to think. www.YesToHS2.co.uk

      • JohnJohn commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        I think people need to look at the Hs2 plan before commenting. It is not a raliway line, it is a rail superhighway with a land take TWICE the width of a motorway. It is NOT green, it is 'carbon neutral AT BEST' Hs2 Ltd's own words. The business case and demand forecasts are predicated upon wild assumptions and mythology and have been systematically dismantled by careful, expert study and evaluation. It would be the most expensive railway to build per mile IN THE WORLD. And no it won't create jobs, aprt from the transient construction work. China can build the rolling stock and locos at half the cost that we could. In response to George Osbourne's recent assertion that Birmigham would benefit by 8,000 jobs, one constituent wrote to his MP:

        'Here we go again. George Osbourne spouting that Hs2 will be 'transformational' and will bring '8,000 jobs' to Birmingham.

        For £30bn? Work it out for yourself, if you can.

        It would be cheaper to pay them all a prime-ministerial, indexed linked salary and retire the 8,000 to the Maldives! And that's just out of the interest of the capital costs, it ignores the ongoing subsidy of running the Hs2elephant for the next four generations.

        What are you all on up there? Is the air or the water that MPs imbibe, different to the rest of the population? Reality certainly does not impinge upon your sense and sensibilities.

        You of those up there spending it are annoying those of us out here paying for it.'

        Those of you who are for it, should add to your sum of knowledge, before making a well informed balanced decison, based on FACTS!

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