I suggest a campaign about ...

Pro wind farms. Let's be "for" something for a change!

Government seriously considering u-turn on wind; wind companies' investment on hold due to uncertainty; well-funded anti-campaigns. Is the viability of life on earth more important than a view?

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    Ruth JarmanRuth Jarman shared this idea  ·   ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

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      • Herbert EppelHerbert Eppel commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Jessie – you obviously didn't read the article on baseload and renewables penetration I just sent. Don't know what you mean about planning fact.

      • jessie wilkinsonjessie wilkinson commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Herbert my claim that renewables have a place off grid is backed up by all the evidence given before and in the Press that on mass renewables need back up. So what you are saying basically is that when we have competely covered the whole of the UK with either wind farms, solar, hydro, managed forests to use for biomass, etc etc (leaving no room for people or for food production) we won't need any back up from conventional power stations? But you failed to answer the question way back about why Denmark (with its drastically reduced population from the UK) hasn't managed to close one single conventional power station despite all its wind turbines? Furthermore, you do not seem to acknowledge that Germany with all its renewable visions is still building filthy coal stations?
        It is as Chloe says (in the real world) what do you want? A nuclear,coal, gas etc station on its own or one station along with the 32,000 turbines we will need to meet our targets? (probably more if we don't build nuclear up)

      • Herbert EppelHerbert Eppel commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Jessie – notwithstanding your repeated claim that "renewables have a place but only locally and not on a mass scale", for which you have provided no evidence whatsoever, I would suggest (if I haven't done so already) that renewables are the only intelligent and sensible way forward. No doubt you'll find something to criticise in this pertinent article too, won't you? http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/energy-futurist/why-baseload-power-is-doomed/445

        As for your claim that the requirement to submit EIAs proves that wind turbines harm the environment, no-one in their right mind would suggest that wind turbines have no impact on the natural environment whatsoever. However, the environmental impacts of most renewable energy technologies (including wind, of course) are considerably less than conventional energy systems. Thorough EIAs ensure that any impacts are reduced to an absolute minimum.

      • Chloe PinkChloe Pink commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Herbert,
        You say "Denmark is a world leader in wind electricity, with a 50% wind penetration target, and Britain could be and do the same..." yet you have not
        answered my request to explain "the advantage that Denmark has over the UK when it comes to wind turbines meaning that a direct comparison between the two countries is inappropriate in some aspects."

        Furthermore, what would back up the wind turbines and provide spinning reserve if we had a 50% penetration?

        The simple question for all of us is what would we rather have in our back yards:

        a) A conventional (nuclear, coal, gas or oil) medium sized power station

        OR

        b) A conventional (nuclear, coal, gas or oil) medium sized power station and
        2,000 x 2MW (100 metre tall) wind turbines

        Thank you, Chloe Pink

        PS No Herbert, I wasn't implying that you're not "for" protecting our ecology and economy and individuals; I made this comment in reference to the opening post.

        PPS Re you article about Germany abandoning it's nuclear power stations, it should be noted that they are increasing their number of coal fired power stations.

        PPPS Apologies for my initial double entry on this blog.

      • jessie wilkinsonjessie wilkinson commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Hi Herbert, that is all interesting however, I got the same feeling as Chloe about the article. It is all about a mixture of renewables and not just wind. Also the wind penetration is a target only and as far as I am aware there is quite a backlash against wind in Denmark finally.
        Quokka's comment says it all for me towards the end - we have to take into account the huge amount of land all this uses up and we have other considerations to think of ie food production and ecology - wind turbines do harm the environment - why do wind companies have to submit Environmental Impact Assessments if not?
        The news about nuclear today only confirms that the lights are going to go out in this country even sooner than expected.
        Renewables have a place but only locally and not on a mass scale - they just can't accommodate our massive demand for energy.

      • Herbert EppelHerbert Eppel commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        I referred to 'Britain' earlier – what I should have said is England and Wales, in view of the fact that Scotland is, of course, already on the right renewables track.

      • Herbert EppelHerbert Eppel commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Cloe - I'm not quite sure what your point is. Are you implying that I'm not "for" protecting our ecology and economy and individuals? Anyway, my point was that, as stated in the Denmark article I sent, Denmark is a world leader in wind electricity, with a 50% wind penetration target, and Britain could be and do the same, if it put its mind to it. Hopefully today's excellent nuclear news (see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-17546420), which are another nail in the coffin of the great British nuclear renaissance pipe dream, will sharpen the mind, and Britain will indeed start firing on all energy efficiency and renewables cylinders, which will be good for the economy, for ecology and indeed for individuals.

      • Chloe PinkChloe Pink commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        I'm all "for" protecting our ecology and economy and individuals.

        Herbert,
        The article you point us to says "Denmark is still putting a lot of stock in wind. But the recent package is notable for its comprehensive approach to combined heat and power, biogas, geothermal heat pumps, and biofuels...
        Denmark is putting conservation and efficiency at the top of its priority list."
        The author doesn't exactly sound convinced by the wind bit; it's the other bits he finds 'notable' and he especially approves of the conservation and efficiency measures.
        So I'm not sure what your point is.

        Perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining the advantage that Denmark has over the UK when it comes to wind turbines meaning that a direct comparison between the two countries is inappropriate in some aspects.

        Thank you, Chloe Pink

        PS The Climate Alliance website says "Ask 38 Degrees to take up the cause"
        http://www.climatealliance.co.uk/?p=1005

      • Chloe PinkChloe Pink commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        I'm all "for" protecting our ecology and economy and individuals.

        Herbert,
        The article you point us to says "Denmark is still putting a lot of stock in wind. But the recent package is notable for its comprehensive approach to combined heat and power, biogas, geothermal heat pumps, and biofuels...
        Denmark is putting conservation and efficiency at the top of its priority list."
        The author doesn't exactly sound convinced by the wind bit; it's the other bits he finds 'notable' and he especially approves of the conservation and efficiency measures.
        So I'm not sure what your point is.

        Perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining the advantage that Denmark has over the UK when it comes to wind turbines meaning that a direct comparison between the two countries is inappropriate in some aspects.

        Thanks
        Chloe Pink
        Thank

        Of course, any good clean energy policy should aggressively promote efficiency. With a target for reducing final energy consumption 7% in 2020 compared with 2010 levels, Denmark is putting conservation and efficiency at the top of its priority list.
        http://www.climatealliance.co.uk/?p=1005

      • jessie wilkinsonjessie wilkinson commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Nice to hear from you Wendy and your lovely democratic ramblings. Guess all those other NIMBYS are just as obsessed, illogical, sad and lonely as me, not like you SWAMPYS then? Actually, Herbert and I were having a nice little discourse but you wouldn't understand that concept would you?

      • Wendé Anne MaunderWendé Anne Maunder commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Herbert Eppel : Ignore Jessie she's obsessed and illogical and always has to have the last word, even when her 'last word' doesn't make sense. Poor woman, she must have a very lonely and boring life. Don't respond to her, it only encourages her.

      • jessie wilkinsonjessie wilkinson commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Herbert
        If Germans are happy with the fact that they have booted out nuclear (why do Germans have such a great fear of nuclear? Is it because of their experiences in WW2? Is nuclear energy confused with nuclear weapons?) then it is because they don't know what is happening and what they are substituting it with.
        Germany is now embarking on the construction of four huge coal-fired power stations that will burn brown coal, one of the filthiest fuels known to man, because of the huge amounts of sulphur and carbon dioxide it produces! Germany already burns 169 million tons of this coal, and it will become the “dirty man of Europe”. The UK consumes 41 million tons of anthracite, which is relatively cleaner and much more efficient.
        Our politicians’ policies on UK energy production have lost all sense and reason, leaving us in the ridiculous position of having to pay twice; once for the wind turbines we don’t want, and the second time for gas-powered stations for back-up when the wind does not blow.
        As said previously too, Germany's new energy policy is playing havoc with its neighbours' grids and causing anomosity there.
        The French produce 80 per cent of their energy from nuclear power. We should be spending money on making nuclear cleaner and safer not on useless wind turbines.Also putting money into more reliable and sensible renewables like tidal. And, of course, we should be embarking on a serious programme to reduce energy consumption. Wind turbines are old technology and we should be looking forward, not backwards.

      • jessie wilkinsonjessie wilkinson commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Ditto Herbert...... you STILL can't answer my questions despite all your so-called evidence.
        I have provided tons of useful links too but you just don't want to acknowledge them.
        All you send me is German wind company propaganda....
        You too have a nice weekend.

      • Herbert EppelHerbert Eppel commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Jessie - this is getting very boring indeed. You keep repeating yourself without actually providing any evidence or useful links. I have provided tons of reference material which you choose to ignore or perhaps can't get your head round. 1297 isn't bad. Everyone knows that it's much harder (probably 10 times harder) to get people off their backsides to campaign in favour of something than it is to crank up an anti-campaign. Have a nice weekend.

      • jessie wilkinsonjessie wilkinson commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Oh and Herbert you aren't doing too well on the sign ups here ie 1297 currently. You may need to circulate to some of your pro-wind pals or have you done it already?

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