Pro wind farms. Let's be "for" something for a change!
Government seriously considering u-turn on wind; wind companies' investment on hold due to uncertainty; well-funded anti-campaigns. Is the viability of life on earth more important than a view?
Ruth Jarman
shared this idea
551 comments
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Chloe Pink
commented
Herbert,
You say "Denmark is a world leader in wind electricity, with a 50% wind penetration target, and Britain could be and do the same..." yet you have not
answered my request to explain "the advantage that Denmark has over the UK when it comes to wind turbines meaning that a direct comparison between the two countries is inappropriate in some aspects."Furthermore, what would back up the wind turbines and provide spinning reserve if we had a 50% penetration?
The simple question for all of us is what would we rather have in our back yards:
a) A conventional (nuclear, coal, gas or oil) medium sized power station
OR
b) A conventional (nuclear, coal, gas or oil) medium sized power station and
2,000 x 2MW (100 metre tall) wind turbinesThank you, Chloe Pink
PS No Herbert, I wasn't implying that you're not "for" protecting our ecology and economy and individuals; I made this comment in reference to the opening post.
PPS Re you article about Germany abandoning it's nuclear power stations, it should be noted that they are increasing their number of coal fired power stations.
PPPS Apologies for my initial double entry on this blog.
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jessie wilkinson
commented
Hi Herbert, that is all interesting however, I got the same feeling as Chloe about the article. It is all about a mixture of renewables and not just wind. Also the wind penetration is a target only and as far as I am aware there is quite a backlash against wind in Denmark finally.
Quokka's comment says it all for me towards the end - we have to take into account the huge amount of land all this uses up and we have other considerations to think of ie food production and ecology - wind turbines do harm the environment - why do wind companies have to submit Environmental Impact Assessments if not?
The news about nuclear today only confirms that the lights are going to go out in this country even sooner than expected.
Renewables have a place but only locally and not on a mass scale - they just can't accommodate our massive demand for energy. -
Herbert Eppel
commented
I referred to 'Britain' earlier – what I should have said is England and Wales, in view of the fact that Scotland is, of course, already on the right renewables track.
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Herbert Eppel
commented
That BBC link I sent may not work because browsers may incorrectly interpret the closing bracket as part of the link. Here it is again without the bracket: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-17546420
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Herbert Eppel
commented
Cloe - I'm not quite sure what your point is. Are you implying that I'm not "for" protecting our ecology and economy and individuals? Anyway, my point was that, as stated in the Denmark article I sent, Denmark is a world leader in wind electricity, with a 50% wind penetration target, and Britain could be and do the same, if it put its mind to it. Hopefully today's excellent nuclear news (see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-17546420), which are another nail in the coffin of the great British nuclear renaissance pipe dream, will sharpen the mind, and Britain will indeed start firing on all energy efficiency and renewables cylinders, which will be good for the economy, for ecology and indeed for individuals.
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Chloe Pink
commented
I'm all "for" protecting our ecology and economy and individuals.
Herbert,
The article you point us to says "Denmark is still putting a lot of stock in wind. But the recent package is notable for its comprehensive approach to combined heat and power, biogas, geothermal heat pumps, and biofuels...
Denmark is putting conservation and efficiency at the top of its priority list."
The author doesn't exactly sound convinced by the wind bit; it's the other bits he finds 'notable' and he especially approves of the conservation and efficiency measures.
So I'm not sure what your point is.Perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining the advantage that Denmark has over the UK when it comes to wind turbines meaning that a direct comparison between the two countries is inappropriate in some aspects.
Thank you, Chloe Pink
PS The Climate Alliance website says "Ask 38 Degrees to take up the cause"
http://www.climatealliance.co.uk/?p=1005 -
Chloe Pink
commented
I'm all "for" protecting our ecology and economy and individuals.
Herbert,
The article you point us to says "Denmark is still putting a lot of stock in wind. But the recent package is notable for its comprehensive approach to combined heat and power, biogas, geothermal heat pumps, and biofuels...
Denmark is putting conservation and efficiency at the top of its priority list."
The author doesn't exactly sound convinced by the wind bit; it's the other bits he finds 'notable' and he especially approves of the conservation and efficiency measures.
So I'm not sure what your point is.Perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining the advantage that Denmark has over the UK when it comes to wind turbines meaning that a direct comparison between the two countries is inappropriate in some aspects.
Thanks
Chloe Pink
ThankOf course, any good clean energy policy should aggressively promote efficiency. With a target for reducing final energy consumption 7% in 2020 compared with 2010 levels, Denmark is putting conservation and efficiency at the top of its priority list.
http://www.climatealliance.co.uk/?p=1005 -
Herbert Eppel
commented
Hi Jessie - you mentioned Denmark the other day.
What do you make of this? http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2012/03/27/452736/all-of-the-above-energy-policy-denmark-commitment-100-renewable-energy-by-2050/
Perhaps wind turbines aren't useless old technology after all? -
jessie wilkinson
commented
Nice to hear from you Wendy and your lovely democratic ramblings. Guess all those other NIMBYS are just as obsessed, illogical, sad and lonely as me, not like you SWAMPYS then? Actually, Herbert and I were having a nice little discourse but you wouldn't understand that concept would you?
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Wendé Anne Maunder
commented
@Herbert Eppel : Ignore Jessie she's obsessed and illogical and always has to have the last word, even when her 'last word' doesn't make sense. Poor woman, she must have a very lonely and boring life. Don't respond to her, it only encourages her.
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jessie wilkinson
commented
Oh yes, forgot about that Herbert! Definitely losing the plot!!!!
Have a good Saturday night....... -
Herbert Eppel
commented
Jessie - don't mention the war!
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jessie wilkinson
commented
Herbert
If Germans are happy with the fact that they have booted out nuclear (why do Germans have such a great fear of nuclear? Is it because of their experiences in WW2? Is nuclear energy confused with nuclear weapons?) then it is because they don't know what is happening and what they are substituting it with.
Germany is now embarking on the construction of four huge coal-fired power stations that will burn brown coal, one of the filthiest fuels known to man, because of the huge amounts of sulphur and carbon dioxide it produces! Germany already burns 169 million tons of this coal, and it will become the “dirty man of Europe”. The UK consumes 41 million tons of anthracite, which is relatively cleaner and much more efficient.
Our politicians’ policies on UK energy production have lost all sense and reason, leaving us in the ridiculous position of having to pay twice; once for the wind turbines we don’t want, and the second time for gas-powered stations for back-up when the wind does not blow.
As said previously too, Germany's new energy policy is playing havoc with its neighbours' grids and causing anomosity there.
The French produce 80 per cent of their energy from nuclear power. We should be spending money on making nuclear cleaner and safer not on useless wind turbines.Also putting money into more reliable and sensible renewables like tidal. And, of course, we should be embarking on a serious programme to reduce energy consumption. Wind turbines are old technology and we should be looking forward, not backwards. -
jessie wilkinson
commented
Ditto Herbert...... you STILL can't answer my questions despite all your so-called evidence.
I have provided tons of useful links too but you just don't want to acknowledge them.
All you send me is German wind company propaganda....
You too have a nice weekend. -
Herbert Eppel
commented
Jessie - this is getting very boring indeed. You keep repeating yourself without actually providing any evidence or useful links. I have provided tons of reference material which you choose to ignore or perhaps can't get your head round. 1297 isn't bad. Everyone knows that it's much harder (probably 10 times harder) to get people off their backsides to campaign in favour of something than it is to crank up an anti-campaign. Have a nice weekend.
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jessie wilkinson
commented
Oh and Herbert you aren't doing too well on the sign ups here ie 1297 currently. You may need to circulate to some of your pro-wind pals or have you done it already?
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jessie wilkinson
commented
OMG Herbert - you have to resort to sending people a load of stuff in German (no I don't speak
it) to evade answering any tangible question that you can't actually answer.
Of course I have made up my mind about wind turbines and their uselessness in the big scheme of things. Just like you - you have made up your mind on their effectiveness and how wonderful they are. But it is pointless to keep exchanging like this - did you actually think you can persuade people with your theories/?arguments? No they are not. It is all just pie in the sky
stuff put about by pro-winders and those who subsidise them. -
Herbert Eppel
commented
Jessie - I'm getting tired of this apparently pointless exchange. You've obviously made up your mind that wind turbines are useless and destroy the countryside and historic buildings, whatever I might say.
How's your German, by the way? In any case, the 92% and 98% approval ratings for Germany's energy strategy reported at http://www.enertragblog.de/2012/03/21/wer-will-die-erneuerbaren-am-meisten speak for themselves, methinks. -
jessie wilkinson
commented
Herbert - you like making bland overwhelming statements I see. Yes, most people if asked by pro-winders like yourself on the streets of a city who then go on and use these signatures in support of wind farms, do say yes. because they do not know the facts of the equation but the British public thanks to the Press in many instances are now waking up to the fact that renewable energy is not what it appears to be - all nicey nicey and comfortable and, most of all "green". In the right places, renewable energy has its place at local level and that is about it. It cannot support effectively and economically to our massive needs for energy.
You didn't respond to the latest National Trust article or tell me how Denmark has not managed to close one conventional power station yet despite its miriad of wind turbines and incredibly expensive electricity. If wind farms are so marvellous then just WHY are they so hated by people who have to live near them? Most wouldn't be bothered if they actually worked or contributed to real carbon emissions reduction or didn't cause such harm to the environment. -
Herbert Eppel
commented
Jessie - time to change the record. The vast majority of people in this country support renewables, including wind. It's the only way forward.
