I suggest a campaign about ...

An end to the flawed technology of wind "farms"

Wind "farm" technology is flawed and has been disproven. It's "popular" because the huge corporations make vast profits from the subsidies available.
If no other fact persuades you, our coldest spells of weather coincide with no or little wind and thus windfarms are redundant at times of peak demand - as happened in December.

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    Richard GilbertRichard Gilbert shared this idea  ·   ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

    620 comments

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      • EdEd commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Paul: Well said. I have never read anyone who is pro-Wind suggest that wind energy does not produce CO2, or is not harmful to environment. It is clean only by comparison to the dirty alternatives.

        Lyndsey: I do care about our future, and am not as ill informed as you suggest.

        The argument about still nights in mid-winter is nonsense: Wind turbines are essentially fuel/carbon savers not peak capacity generators.

        There are lots of levels of standby required to balance our power supply, hot standby runs on 0.1% of the fuel of full load, a gas station can be at full load from cold in 2 hours. The intermittency of wind power is predictable, and manageable.

        Wind power is certainly uneconomic, we could just burn cheap dirty coal and to hell with our children's future. Not everything is measured by money.

        Please don't fight against wind farms unless you are prepared to campaign for a constructive alternative.

      • Paul TaylorPaul Taylor commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Sorry about the glitch ... I meant to add , '... what other clean, SAFE and low-carbon technology is available in the immediate future?'

      • Paul TaylorPaul Taylor commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Well I've stopped posting because there was too much hot-air being blown and I'm guuessing others are feeling the same!

        Whatever we do or manufacture to yeild power, will have an emission figure, either during manufacturing of parts, transport or installation. So firstly, keeping those to minimum emissions, must be the first target.

        Secondly, I would ask, exactly what other clean, SAFE technology is available in the immediate future?

        Wind-speeds of just 6m/sec is all that's needed to turn a turbine and I know you'll find that in plenty of the sites around the UK!

      • Paul TaylorPaul Taylor commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Well I've stopped posting because there was too much hot-air being blown and I'm guuessing others are feeling the same!

        Whatever we do or manufacture to yeild power, will have an emission figure, either during manufacturing of parts, transport or installation. So firstly, keeping those to minimum emissions, must be the first target.

        Secondly, I would ask, exactly what other clean, SAFE technology is available in the immediate future?

        Wind-speeds of just 6m/sec is all that's needed to turn a turbine and I know you'll find that in plenty of the sites around the UK!

      • LyndseyLyndsey commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        This forum has virtually been abandoned by the people who agree with it's title. My final comment would be to the last few posts from people who clearly have not researched the subject of wind power. Those that have and disagree with the propaganda now realise this suggestion will never be allowed to become a campaign. We will continue to fight against this flawed technology that is neither efficient or economic. The only people who agree with wind power are either ill informed or in the industry itself. You cannot argue against the maths or the science that says wind will never be anything more than unreliable and we will always need other forms of energy to back it up or the lights will go out. Oh and Ed fossil fuel power stations do not 'idle' while the wind blows. To crank them up when needed releases even more CO2. The manufacture and installation of wind farms is extremely polluting - but that has been posted here many times before. May I suggest people take the time to read older posts - that is if they care enough! Other countries are pulling back from wind power because it is flawed and too expensive - our government would do well to take heed before it is too late. In times of extreme cold here in Scotland there is often not a breath of wind for days on end yet demand surges - wind does not deliver. Well only money into the pockets of the developers & land owners - straight from additions on our energy bills. It's time everyone woke up to what a massive waste of money this is and how it will damage the environment forever.

      • Phil DriscollPhil Driscoll commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        I agree with Ed. Of course the intermittent supply has to be managed, but it's not rocket science - they manage it very well in Denmark. Our civilisation has to make a choice. Burning fossil fuels can't continue because of CO2 emissions and the fact that the fuel is running out. Nuclear can't continue because it's incredibly dangerous, and the uranium is running out. In the end we are left with wind, solar, hydro, wave, tidal and geothermal. In the UK, wind is the most likely candidate to meet our energy needs. We have to choose whether or not we want electrical energy and lots of wind turbines, or no electrical energy and no wind turbines.

      • EdEd commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        This campaign is flawed - no one claims wind power is available at all times, but when it is generating it allows fossil fuel burning power stations to idle, saving vast amounts of carbon emissions. Wind power is only intended to provide a small amount of UK power, and it's unreliability is entirely manageable by the National Grid and it's peak load management.

        For those affected by wind farms, built too close to residences, I am entirely sympathetic. But this campaign says wind farms are flawed, they are not!

      • John GrahamJohn Graham commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Hi Katey, it doesn't work like that. Power is not like a bag of sugar. It is all channeled to the National Grid and then dispersed depending on demand. As David says the Eden Project still relies on the Grid. What they are doing is making use of alterbnative sources for heat, one of the three elements of sustainable energy, electricity, heat and transport. On any one day 4% of the UK power is sourced from France, without doubt Nuclear. Wind is intermittant and rarely avialable to meet peak loads. Anything else you have been told is simply untrue. Most wind power is created in North Wales, off-shore and north of the border. Visit http://www.ref.org.uk/roc-generators/ to look at the meagre outpourings of west country power. When you are quoted megawatts of power they talk capacity. Output is variable but averages for last year 21% of that capacity. For that you are subsidising the wind generators at a rate of 100% of their actual output. This is paid by you in your electricity bills. For an average house that would be something like £157 per year. One last thought. What happens to the quality of life of those living in the West Country. Thousands of heavy lorries, the noise, the visual intrusion. One thousand tons of concrete per turbine base. Each turbine and base represents 250,000 pounds of CO2. Not accounted for in their carbon payback calculations. No, Katey. They won't look pretty when they are rusting away in a few years time and you will be paying for them for the rest of your life.

      • David BaldwinDavid Baldwin commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Katey how can the Eden Project by self-sustainble if as you say, it sources power from an external source? Surely if it is connected to the grid you don't get to choose the generation method of the electricity used.
        The Eden Projects own website says:
        "A 5kW wind turbine up near our car parks feeds into our overall power supply. We explored the possibility of erecting a 2MW turbine at Eden but, following lengthy talks with local people, we decided to look at less visible renewable energy options such as geothermal power."
        They also have 30kW Solar PV, Air source heat and have a 300kW Biomass Boiler. From this information, Wind plays a very tiny part in their local power generation.

      • Katey ParrKatey Parr commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Wind farms allow the Eden Project to run completely self-sustainably... Eden uses only locally sourced power from the windmills in Cornwall itself... so how can they be useless? Wind farms are much better than expensive, dangerous, unsightly power stations!!! How on earth are white windmills ugly in comparison to massive ugly power stations?

      • David BaldwinDavid Baldwin commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Those people who insist that wind turbines do not make any noise after visiting them for an hour or more, really do insult those who are forced to live with them 24 hours a day, seven days a week. If you visited a place once and it was sunny, would that mean therefore that it never rains?? The answer is obviously no, but it is this kind of illogical thinking pro-wind like to use to dismiss the noise problem. Wind Turbines do not make noise all the time, in the same way they don't produce electricity all the time but there are times when they do and the noise often reaches neighboring properties at levels higher than wind operators and their regulations claim is an acceptable level.

        I include this youtube link to a video showing a few recent examples of turbine noise at my families home next to Hadyard Hill Wind Power Plant.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzNj9DKDk1c

      • Debs Debs commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        "Worth the Candle? The Economic Impact of Renewable Energy Policy in Scotland and the UK - March 2011 - Executive Summary - Verso Economics - Richard Marsh & Tom Miers"
        This document makes interesting reading. It examines the costs placed on all of us and concludes that it is economically and environmentally damaging. The Government should not see this as an economic opportunity in terms of climate change. We already know the long term damage that will be caused by each wind turbine, each requiring 100 tons of concrete(which is permanent), steel, copper, fiberglass and rare earth minerals like neodymium for the powerful magnets. All of these involve substantial resource extraction, refining, smelting, manufacturing and shipping. Land and habitat impacts, rock removal and pulverizing, solid waste disposal, burning fossil fuels, air and water pollution, and carbon dioxide emissions occur on large scales during every step of the process. This £250bn + wind power industry could be the greatest scam of our age and it will destroy our island.
        http://probeinternational.org/library/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/verso-0311B1.pdf
        http://alansloman.blogspot.com/2011/03/worth-candle.html?spref=fb

      • LyndseyLyndsey commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Offshore or onshore. They are still subsidised, uneconomic, unreliable, ruin tourism, polluting, chop up wildlife etc etc etc need I go on?

      • SarzWSarzW commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Bob Roberts - we don't suffer from powerful earthquakes or tsunamis *at the moment*! We do, however, sit on a fault line, and have no control whatsoever over how that will or won't move in the future!
        I do agree though that massive wind farms possibly aren't the answer. I don't think massive anything is the answer. Every home in Britain needs to have it's own set-up - ground-source, wind-power, solar, whatever will work in each individual circumstance. Localising makes much more sense than trying to solve this problem on a national scale, IMHO.

      • HighlanderHighlander commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Hi Paul. I see you are not from Scotland. We are very proud our country and yet our politicians want to cover, and I do mean cover, the whole of our wild lands with wind factories. Please don't call them wind parks. That insults the people that run the beautiful parks in this country! Yes, you can dismantle them but whether they will is questionnable. Whether these companies will simply liquidate before they have to remove then. When the money runs out! We have seen this before with rig construction. Although they were supposed to be de-commissioned, the rusting hulks are still there and the companies long gone. What you can't do is remove the one thousand tons per turbine concrete bases that effect the watercourses, the hundreds of miles of motorway wide access roads. You cannot control the CO2 that is released after the hundreds of thousands of tons of peat is dug up to allow the roads, the turbine bases, the crane bases, the substations and the power line access to be built. That is there for ever!!! The developers simply say that they will cover them over, You can decommission a nuclear power station. You cannot decommission the ecological damage that building wind farms does. Look on the internet and you will see it for yourself. Go to www.alansloman.blogspot.com and look at the videos and the maps. Come to Scotland and we will take you there. It has reduced men that have worked this land man and boy for a generation and their fathers before them to tears of desparation.

      • Paul TaylorPaul Taylor commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        I'm sorry ... I cannot explain why my earlier comments keep repeating. It isn't intentional!!

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